>>> THANKS FOR WATCHING OTR.

OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS DETROIT REPRESENTATIVE TYRONE CARTER, A FORMER SHERIFF WHO IS NOW PART OF THE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP TEAM.

OUR LEAD STORY IS THE GOVERNOR SIGNED SOME GUN SAFETY PROPOSALS, AND THE CHINESE PLANT UP NORTH IS STILL IN DOUBT.

ON THE OTR PANEL, SITTING US WITH AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT, OFF THE RECORD.

PRODUCTION IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMIRE, A FULL SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AGENCY PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONS, DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY HE ENGAGEMENT, LEARN MORE AT MARTINWAYMIRE.COM.

AND NOW THIS HEED ITION WITH OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WELCOME TO STUDIO C ON THIS SPRING MORNING, IT'S FINALLY HERE AND SO ARE THE GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION THAT THE GOVERNOR SIGNED YESTERDAY.

>> Reporter: SOME GUN SAFETY GROUPS HAVE BEEN WAITING 10 YEARS FOR THIS MOMENT.

GOVERNOR WHIT PER PUTTING PEN TO PAPER SIGN WHAT SHE CALLS COMMON SENSE GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION.

AND THE AUDIENCE LOVED IT.

[ CHEERING ] >> Reporter: IN THE WAKE OF THE STUDENT DEATHS IN 2020 AT THE OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL AND THE MURDER OF THREE STUDENTS ON MSU TWO MONTHS AGO TODAY, EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE SUPPORED STRONGER BACKGROUND CHECKS BEFORE ANYBODY CAN BUY A WEAPON.

>> WITH UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR ALL FIREARMS, WE STAND A BETTER CHANCE OF PRESENTING -- PREVENTING A TRAGEDY.

NO LONG DOER WE ONLY HAVE OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS -- DO WE HAVE OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS.

WE HAVE THESE TOOLS AND TAKING ACTIONS.

>> Reporter: ALSO ACTION ON ORDERS FOR GUN OWNERS TO LOCK THEIR FIREARMS IN THEIR HOMES.

>> WE'RE CHANGING THE LAWS TO MAKE SURE THAT KIDS CAN'T GET ACCESS TO GUNS AND SHOOT THEMSELVES AND THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM.

[ APPLAUSE ] >>> WE'RE GONNA MAKE THEM TAKE THE BASIC SAFETY MEASURES TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR KIDS EVERY DAY.

>> Reporter: BUT THIS REPUBLICAN LAWMAKER AND AVID GUN OWNER WAS AMONG THOSE WHO DID NOT FAVOR THE MANDATE.

>> PART OF THIS IS EDUCATION.

WE TAUGHT OUR KIDS DON'T TOUCH IT.

A GUN'S ALWAYS LOADED.

DON'T POINT TO AT THINGS YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOOT.

BE RESPECTFUL OF THE FIREARM, BUT IT WOULDN'T HAVE SAVED ANYTHING.

THIS IS A KNEE JERK REACTION TO MICHIGAN STATE, AND IT WOULDN'T HAVE PREVENTED THAT TRAGEDY LET'S ENFORCE THE ONES WE HAVE.

>> Reporter: THE BILL WAS SIGNED ON THE MSU CAMPUS.

>> PERMISSION OF STATE STUDENTS PASSING THIS LEGISLATION MEANS A FIRST STEP TOWARDS SOME SORT OF SAFETY.

OUR HOME MIGHT BE FOREVER HE HURT FOR US, BUT IN THE WORST OF TIMES WE COME TOGETHER AND DO WHAT WE CAN TO CHANGE THE WORLD.

>> Reporter: BUT THE PRO GUN LOBBY ARGUES THIS NEW LAW WON'T SAVE LIVES BECAUSE THOSE WHO WANT TO DO HARM WILL SIMPLY IGNORE THE LAWS.

BUT THE GOVERNOR HE PREDICT THERE IS WILL BE MORE ANTI-GUN LAWS COMING DOWN THE PIKE.

>> WE'VE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS IN 100 DAYS.

GUESS WHAT, BUCKLE UP, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD.

[ CHEERING ] >> BUCKLE UP, MORE TO COME.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE THIS EVENT YESTERDAY?

>> YEAH, I THINK IS A REALLY BIG MOMENT FOR DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE LONG PUSHED FOR ADDITIONAL GUN LEGISLATION AND IT'S THESE IDEAS IDEAS, SAFE STORAGE, BACKGROUND CHECKS, RED FLAG LAWS HAVE ALL BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR HE MANY YEARS AT THIS POINT.

A LOT OF OTHER STATES HAVE STARTED LOOKING AT THEM OR PAST LAWS SIMILAR TO THIS.

SO WHAT WILL BE REALLY INTERESTING TO ME IS, AS YOU SAID, WHAT'S NEXT.

WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE PLANNING TO GO BEYOND AND DO IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT IS SPECIFICALLY TAILORED TO EVENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN MICHIGAN, IF THERE'S OTHER IDEAS THAT ARE PERCOLATING.

CLEARLY THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A LOT OF EFFECTIVER ON THIS ISSUE AND -- FERVOR ON THIS ISSUE AND A LOT OF MOMENTUM HERE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE BILL SIGNING.

>> YEAH, LIKE LAUREN, I'M EAGER TO SEE WHAT'S NEXT.

I TALKED TO LAWMAKERS YESTERDAY, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT AMMUNITION MAGAZINE SIZE ONE POTENTIAL AREA TO LOOK AT.

SOME LAWMAKERS TOLD ME THEY WOULD VOTE FOR AN ASSAULT WEAPON BAN AT THE STATE LEVEL, WHETHER LEADERSHIP DECIDES TO GO THAT ROUTE, WHICH WOULD BE A PRETTY COMBATIVE ISSUE, WE'LL SEE.

BUT, YEAH, I MEAN, THIS IS A CULMINATION OF A LOT OF WORK, NOT JUST BY LAWMAKERS, BUT BY THESE GROUPS, MOMS DEMAND ACTION, HE EVERY TOWN.

THESE GROUPS HAVE BEEN WORK ACROSS THE COUNTRY BUT HERE IN MICHIGAN HAVE A PRETTY DEDICATED VOLUNTEER BASE.

>> YEAH, 10 JEERS A LONG I AM TO WAIT FOR -- 10 YEARS IS A LONG TIME TO WAIT FOR SOMETHING.

>> YEAH, AND THEY SHOW UP.

THE REDISTRICTING FORM THE OTHER YEAR, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE GROUND WHO ARE FULLY VERY ?REFD THIS AND THEY SHOW UP.

IT WAS A CELEBRATION YESTERDAY, ALTHOUGH, A SOMBER ONE, OF COURSE A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR SOME OF THE VICTIMS IN THE RECENT MASS SHOOTINGS AS WELL.

>> AND SPURRED ALONG BY RECENT TRAGIC EVENTS, YOU KNOW, IN MICHIGAN AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY, NEW DEMOCRATIC MAJORITIES AND A PRIORITY THAT, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC OPINION IS LARGELY BEHIND.

YOU KNOW, WHAT'S NEXT?

I WOULD SAY A LOT OF BUDGET FIGHTS THAT REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO TRY AND THROW DOWN AMENDMENTS TO SORT OF PORTRAY DEMOCRATS AS HYPOCRITES ON REAL GUN SAFETY AS OPPOSED TO THESE INITIAL MEASURES THAT ARE GOING TO -- YOU KNOW, THAT ARE SORT OF DISPLAYED AS IN GRUEL, AND HE LET'S NOT FORGET THAT IT'S VERY, VERY LIKELY THAT AT SOME POINT THERE WILL BE LITIGATION OVER THESE GUN MEASURES.

>> WELL, LOOK IT, THIS WAS A TEXTBOOK APPROACH TO STUFF, WHAT YOU DO LEGISLATIVELY.

YOU SHOULD TAKE THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT FIRST TO BUILD SOME MOMENTUM, AND THE GOVERNOR FROM THE OUTSET NEEDED THE PUBLIC BEHIND HER ON THIS.

I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THERE WAS NOT MORE DEMOCRATIC PUSHBACK ON THIS STUFF.

MAYBE THAT COMES LATER ON, ON THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN.

NOW YOU'RE GETTING INTO THE WEEDS.

NOW YOU'RE GETTING INTO THE STUFF THAT REALLY HITS HOME AND IS TOUGHER, RIGHT?

>> SURE.

I THINK THE SAFE STORAGE BILLS AND UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS, LIKE THE GOVERNOR SAID YESTERDAY, THOSE ARE, YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID SORT OF THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT BECAUSE THEY'RE WIDELY POPULAR BY POLLING.

>> HOW COULD YOU GO WRONG?

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

LAWMAKERS AREN'T FEARING MUCH VOTER RETRIBUTION IN THEIR DISTRICTS, NECESSARY FOR THOSE VOTES.

RED FLAG ONE IS A LITTLE THORNIER, WE'VE SEEN THAT TAKE SEVERAL WEEKS LONGER THAN THE OTHER BILLS.

THE HOUSE DID PASS IT THOUGH THIS WEEK, THURSDAY, AFTER THIS BILL SIGNING, AND LOOKS LIKE THE SENATE'S GONNA SIGN OFF ON SOME OF THE CHANGES THE HOUSE MADE, AND IT'LL PROBABLY BE HEADING TO THE GOVERNOR FAIRLY QUICKLY, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF -- A LITTLE MORE HEARTBURN ON THAT ONE BECAUSE OF DUE PROCESS CONCERNS AND JUST CONTROVERSY.

THESE LAWMAKERS -- DEMOCRATS A TWO-SEAT MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE, WHICH IS UP FOR RE-ELECTION -- WELL, BOTH CHAMBERS BUT THE HOUSE IS UP FOR RE-ELECTION NEXT YEAR AND SOME OF THESE SWING DISTRICTS, SOME OF THE THORNIER GUN ISSUES COULD BE DIFFICULT VOTES FOR THE LAWMAKERS TO TAKE AS THEY FACE THE PROSPECT OF SEEKING RE-ELECTION.

SO, YOU KNOW THESE BILLS WERE YEARS IN THE MAKING, ALTHOUGH THE WAY REPUBLICANS FRAME THEM AS A KNEE JERK REACTION, THEY WEREN'T.

THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON THESE BILLS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

>> SO STAY TUNED, RIGHT.

>> I THINK WE'RE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S A LOT OF ISSUES ARE COMING TO THAT, WHERE THERE WAS A LOT OF MOMENTUM, PRETTY LOW-HANGING FRUIT.

IT'S NOT JUST GUNS.

IT'S A LOT OF THESE ISSUES.

LABOR, THE ABORTION ISSUES.

THESE WERE ALL THINGS THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE SAID THEY'VE WANTED TO DO FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

THEY KNEW THAT THEY HAD THE VOTES IN THEIR CAUCUS.

NOW, ESPECIALLY ONCE WE GET INTO BUDGET CONVERSATIONS.

BUT EVEN AS WE MOVE DEEPER INTO THESE POLISHES, THERE COULD BE MORE DISAGREEMENT AMONG DEMOCRATS.

FOR SOME OF THE BIG POLICIES THEY MAY NEED TO CROSS HE OVER, APPEAL TO REPUBLICANS SOMEHOW, BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP GETTING THE 56 DEMOCRATS THEY NEED ON EVERY SINGLE ISSUE.

>> YEAH, THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THIS ACROSS THE LINE AND, YOU KNOW, ON THIS LABOR STUFF, ESPECIALLY THINGS THAT AFFECT SMALL BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IT MIGHT BE MORE DIFFICULT TO PULL IT TOGETHER, COALITIONS, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GONNA BE THE CHALLENGE FOR HOUSE SPEAKER JOE TATE AND SENATE MAJORITY LEADER WHITE BRINKS TO TRY TO DEAL WITH THAT -- KEEPING EVERYONE TOGETHER ON SELECT ISSUES.

BUT SLING MAJORITIES IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM THE MAJORITIES IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO USE THEM WHILE THEY HAVE THEM, EVEN IF IT'S FOR JUST PART OF THE SESSION.

>> BUT TO YOUR POINT ABOUT BUDGET, SPENDING SPECIFICALLY ON CORPORATE INCENTIVES IS ONE AREA WHERE YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE SOME DISAGREEMENT AMONG DEMOCRATS COME OUT INTO THE OPEN.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD A GUEST RECENTLY TALKING ABOUT THE GOSHEN PLANT AND, YOU KNOW, THAT -- THIS WEEK, THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES, IT SEEMS, TO APPROVE -- GET FINAL APPROVAL TO 175 MILLION-DOLLAR INCENTIVE FOR THAT COMPANY.

THERE'S A LOT OF SCUTTLE BUT THELE WITH REPUBLICANS ABOUT THE COMMUNITYIST PARTY CONNECTIONS, THE PARENT COMPANY BASED IN CHINA AND EVEN SOME -- I TALKED TO A DEMOCRAT WHO SHOWED UP TO THAT HEARING HOPING TO SPEAK IN A PUBLIC SETTING, WAS NOT ALLOWED TO.

SHE WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT THE POTENTIAL ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE MEDC SORT OF ACKNOWLEDGED THIS WEEK TOO THAT MAYBE THEIR INVESTIGATING PROCESS NEEDS TO INVOLVE A LITTLE MORE LOCAL COMMUNITY TIE-IN.

NOT JUST BUSINESS LEADERS, BUT PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY'RE FACING SOME BLOW-BACK FROM PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY BY OFFERING TO GIVE THEM ALL THESE JOBS.

>> AND LOOK AT AD HOCK COALITIONS OF PROGRESSIVES AND FREE MARKET CONSERVATIVES WHO AREN'T COMING TOGETHER.

>> THEY NEED TO COME TOGETHER IN A SAME BAR... >> WELL, FOR THESE PARTICULAR DEALS.

>> THE COMMUNITY UP THERE, WHEN WE HAD REPRESENTATIVE CIEWNT ON THE SHOW LAST HE WEEK, HE SAYS THIS WILL BE DECIDED ON THE PEOPLE UPNORTH AND THIS WILL GO TO THE BALLOT UP THERE AND WILL BE DECIDED BY THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES.

THE ENACT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES IN THE COMMITTEE SENT THE -- THE FACT THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES IN THE COMMITTEE SHOWS THAT IT IS GAINING SOME MOMENTUM.

>> AND GIVING INCENTIVES WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT OVERSIGHT AND ENSURING THAT THE MONEY IS GOING SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN JUST TO BUILD PROFITS FOR BUSINESSES.

SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT MORE AND MORE AS THESE CONTINUE TO GET PUSHED, BUT TO YOUR POINT, AS WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING TO ADD -- THE COMMUNITIES NEED BUY-IN, TO PUSH THESE FORWARD, TO GET THESE PROJECTS OFF THE GROUND.

SO A STATE LEVEL APPROACH ONLY GOES SO FAR.

YOU NEED HAVE LOCAL BUY-IN AND PEOPLE INTERESTED IN HE TAKING THESE JOBS FOR THE RIGHT POINT THEY'RE GIVEN.

>> AND DON'T FORGET PEOPLE HAVE A SENSE OF HISTORY ABOUT THESE THINGS.

YOU REMEMBER THE GRAND HOME ERA INCENTIVES AND HOW DIFFICULT THEY WERE TO PHASE OUT.

BUT AT FIRST IT WAS JOB CREATION INCENTIVES, JOB ATTRACTION INCENTIVES, AND THEN THEY MOVED INTO JOB RETENTION INCENTIVES, WHICH ISN'T GROWTH.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, NOT GOING TO MOVE AWAY, THAT IT WAS WE'VE GOT YOU OVER A BARREL.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER OUR DISCUSSION WE HAD AROUND THIS TABLE, AT BEGINNING OF THE YEAR THERE WAS SPECULATION THAT AT SOME POINT THE DWEEMS START TO GET INTO AN AREA WHERE THEY MIGHT BE LOSING TUSH WITH THE POPULATION.

I WANT TO BRING UP THE ISSUE THIS WEEK OF UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY MAYBE GETTING A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

IS THAT THE SORT OF THING THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON AT HOME IS GOING TO SAY "WHAT?"

>>E POTENTIALLY, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY POLLING ON THE ISSUE OR FRANKLY TALKED TO MANY PEOPLE ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT IS AN IDEA DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR HE SEVERAL YEARS, BUT IT'S GOT A NEW SENSE OF MAYBE THIS COULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN WITH DEMOCRATS HAVING A MAJORITY NOW.

NOW, MICHIGAN DID ALLOW UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO HAVE DRIVER'S LICENSES PRIOR TO SEVEN 2000, SEVEN 8.

>> BEFORE MIKE COX CAME ALONG.

>> SURE.

>> BUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID YOU DON'T IT.

>> SURE.

AND THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING ARGUMENTS.

THERE HAVE BEEN EVEN SOME BUSINESS FOLKS IN THE PAST WHO DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA.

BECAUSE THESE FOLKS, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, THEY'RE PART OF THE ECONOMY, AND THEY HAVE JOBS, AND HE RIGHT NOW SOME OF THEM ARE ILLEGALLY DRIVING TO THOSE JOBS.

IF THEY GET IN AN ACCIDENT, THEY MAY HAVE INCENTIVE TO FLEE THE SCENE OR DON'T VERY INSURANCE.

DEMOCRATS SAID WE'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NATION'S BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

BUT THE FOLKS ARE HERE.

SO WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO?

IT'S AN INTERESTING POLICY.

>> ONCE AGAIN AD HOC COALITIONS, THAT WE HAVE A LABOR SHORTAGE, WE HAVE SMALL BUSINESSES IN PARTICULAR THAT NEED WORKERS, AND THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS RESOLUTION AND IT'S NOT JUST SAYING THAT WE'RE GONNA KEEP PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING IDs OR DRIVING AROUND ILLEGALLY.

>> YEAH.

THEY'LL HAVE A BIG PUBLIC PERCEPTION ARGUMENT TO MAKE HERE.

REPUBLICANS ARE ALREADY -- ALREADY GOING AGAINST THIS, SAYING THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS, AND A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT IS SET.

>> -- COMMERCIAL READY TO BE RUN.

>> RIGHT.

AND EVEN WITH THE INTRODUCTION PEOPLE WERE ALREADY STARTING TO OPPOSE THIS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, STARTING TO, YOU KNOW, GET THE WHEELS TURNING.

AND TO JONATHAN'S POINT, THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING ARMS OUT THERE FOR IT, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED TO THE PUBLIC IF THEY WANT THE PUBLIC BUY-IN.

>> THERE YOU GO.

THERE'S THE KISS OF DEATH.

>> THAT ALL WORKED SO WELL... >> YEAH.

WE SAW RAILING AGAINST IMMIGRATION WAS A WINNING ISSUE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IN 2016, SO IT'S STILL AN ISSUE THAT RESINATES WELL WITH THE REPUBLICANS.

>> LET'S BRING IN ANOTHER GUEST, ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT WAS ON BOARD OF THIS IMMIGRATION THING.

REPRESENTATIVE -- FIRST OF ALL, WELCOME TO OFF THE RECORD, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, GOOD TO SEE YOU AS WELL, TIM.

AND THE WONDERFUL PANEL.

>> THROUGH GO.

SO LUCY, YOU GOT SOME EXPLAINING TO DO ON THIS IMMIGRATION THING, HEY?

>> WELL, YES AND IN.

MY DISTRICT, I THINK I HAVE ABOUT 35% LATINO POPULATION, DISTRICT 1, SOUTHWEST DETROIT, AND LIVING HERE AND BEING A FORMER OFFICER I SEE FAR TOO MANY HIT-AND-RUN ACCIDENTS.

BECAUSE A PERSON DOESN'T HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DRIVE.

I THINK MOST DRIVERS ON THE ROAD WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING ARE ACTUALLY QUALIFIED AND HAVE TAKEN THE TEST AND ABLE TO DRIVE.

WE'LL KNOW WHO'S ON THE ROAD.

HAVE INSURANCE.

I THINK IT'S BETTER THAN DOING NOTHING, WHICH HAS HAPPENED SINCE 2008.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT YOUR CRITICS ARE GOING TO SAY THERE HE GOES, SPEAKING ABOUT A LOGICAL SOLUTION TO AN ALLEGED PROBLEM AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HIT THE EMOTION BUTTON THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT HERE LEGALLY, WHY SHOULD WE BE ENDORSING IT AND ENCOURAGING THAT?

>> THESE PEOPLE ARE HERE LEGALLY.

A LOT OF THEM ARE WORKING FOR THE FARM BUREAU ORGANIZATIONS.

SO TO ME, IT PULLS PEOPLE OUT OF THE SHELVES.

WE HAVE A HORRIBLE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.

SO HOW DO WE ADDRESS THIS?

AND AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE A PERSON DOESN'T HAVE -- I KNOW PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD SUSPENDED LICENSES THAT DRIVE.

SO WE HAVE TO CREATE PATHWAYS AND OPPORTUNITIES AND WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, DO IT WITH EMOTION AND SAY OKAY UNDOCUMENTED EQUALS CRIMINAL, UNDOCUMENTED MEANS CONNECTIONS TO FENTENYL.

LET'S STOP THAT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO COME HE HERE, WORK, PAY TAXES.

LET'S LEAVE THAT ASIDE.

I THINK THAT IF WE REALLY SIT DOWN AND HAVE A GREAT CONVERSATION AND REMOVIE MOTION, WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT.

BUT DOING NOTHING HASN'T SERVED MANY COMMUNITIES WELL?

>> LAUREN, WHAT YOU GOT?

>> EARLIER WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE NEXT ON THE GUN CONVERSATION FOR DEMOCRATS.

>> YOU KNOW, I HAVE NOT WORKED INTIMATELY ON THAT PACKAGE.

THEY WILL CONSULT WE ME AS A RETIRED OFFICER.

SO TO ME, THE ONES THAT WE PASSED WERE LITERALLY COMMON SENSE, ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY OF DETROIT, SAFE STORAGE.

YOU KNOW, I TALK ABOUT IF YOU HAD A SNAKE, YOU WOULDN'T JUST LEAVE IT UP UNDER A BED OR PILLOW.

YOU'D PUT IT UP SO THAT IT WOULD DO NO HARM.

THE OTHER ONES, THE RED FLAGS, EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE DONE HAS BEEN TESTED, IT'S BEEN SURVEYED AND 90% OF THE PEOPLE AGREE WITH IT.

NOW, IT MAY TAKE A LITTLE HARDER PUSH FOR SOME OF OUR ACTIVISTS, GUN RIGHT ACTIVISTS ON OUR SIDE OF THE AISLE WHEN WE GO A LITTLE FURTHER.

SO WE'RE GONNA WAIT AND SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

BUT TO ME, THESE WERE THE EASY ONES WITH THE BIGGEST APPETITE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY.

>> BUT EVEN LAW ENFORCEMENT WAS DIVIDED ON THIS ISSUE, ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT GOING AND ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, TAKING GUNS UNDER THE EMERGENCY -- YOU KNOW, THE EMERGENCY DANGER TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS' ORDERS.

IS IT WHAT'S THE BRIDGE THERE TO GET MORE PEOPLE ON BOARD?

>> WELL, I THINK IF WE HAVE A REASONABLE UNEMOTIONAL CONVERSATION, AND THE ANALOGY I USED WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT IS, YEARS AGO BEFORE THE TERM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, WE SAY FAMILY DISPUTE.

OFFICERS WOULD, GO SHOW UP, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T ARREST SOMEBODY FOR A MISDEMEANOR NOT COMMITTED IN YOUR PRESENCE, AND YOU'D HAVE SOMEBODY LOOKING LIKE THEY'VE BEEN COMBATANTS AND THEY SAY IS EVERYBODY OKAY, DA, DA.

YES, OKAY.

THE EARN IS NOT GOING TO SAY, YEAH, I'VE BEEN ABUSED.

SO THE POLICE WOULD LEAVE.

YOU FIND OUT LATER THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE OF THE PEOPLE PASSED AWAY, SOMEBODY SHOT SOMEONE.

ANY HE WAY, THEN THE FAMILY WOULD SUE.

SO DOING NOTHING HAS NOT SERVED US WELL.

SO IF THE POLICE SHOW UP OR THERE'S A CALL, REMEMBER, THESE ARE INITIATED THINGS.

THESE AREN'T JUST RANDOM THINGS.

AND A FAMILY MEMBER SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS PERSON'S MENTAL HEALTH, THERE'S AN ISSUE, I'D MUCH RATHER -- TO WRAP IT UP, I'D MUCH RATHER ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO REMOVE THE WEAPONS FROM HERE BASED ON THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU INDUSTRIAL TO ARTICULATE IT, AND YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET IT BACK.

SO ALL OF THOSE WONDERFUL SPEECHES ABOUT NOTHING YESTERDAY, ABOUT HOW THIS IS GONNA IMPACT THINGS, IF WE CAN SAVE ONE OR TWO LIVES, MAKE PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE, I THINK, AGAIN, WE'VE DONE NOTHING FOR SO LONG THAT DOING NOTHING HASN'T SERVED THE PEOPLE.

>> BUT JUST LIKE IMMIGRATION, WHEN IT COMES TO GUNS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ERASE EMOTION AND PASSION FROM EITHER OF THOSE QUESTIONS.

SO HOW DO YOU CONFRONT THAT?

>> YOU TRY TO USE WHAT WE CALL REASON AND LOGIC, AND SOMETIMES IT GETS THROUGH, AND A LOT OF TIMES -- A PRISONER ONCE TOLD ME, THE HARDEST THING TO CHANGE IS A MADE-UP MIND.

THERE ARE JUST SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR MINDS MADE UP ON CERTAIN ISSUES.

SO NO REASON TO CIRCLE BACK AND TALK TO THEM.

BUT ONES THAT CAN SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, EVERYTHING HAS EVOLVED IN THIS COUNTRY.

I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS HE MARIJUANA.

YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE WE NOW?

GAY MARRIAGE, WHERE ARE WE NOW?

SO WE CAN SIT DOWN, AND REASONABLE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO PREVAIL IN THIS BECAUSE DOING NOTHING WILL GET SAME OLE', SAME OLE', THOUGHTS, PRAYERS, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE'RE TRYING.

WE'RE IN A POSITION TO DO SOMETHING, SO EITHER GET ON BOARD AND WORK WITH US, WHICH WE USED TO DO WHEN REPUBLICANS WERE THE MAJORITY.

GET ON BOARD.

AND IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S -- AND THIS IS WHAT I USED TO TELL PEOPLE, BY SPEAKING UP, IF IT'S SOMETHING I BELIEVE IS BAD, I CAN'T STOP IT, BUT I CAN MAKE IT LESS BAD.

BUT TO JUST PUSH BACK TOTALLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE IS NOT GOING TO SERVE ANYBODY WELL.

>> RELATIVE, ON THE SAFE STORAGE LAW THAT THE GOVERNOR SIGNED YES, WE OF COURSE HAVE SEEN TRAGEDIES IN MICHIGAN WHERE THE YOUNG CHILD HAS GOTTEN A GUN AND ACCIDENTALLY SHOT THEMSELVES OR A FRIEND.

BUT ON THE FLIP SIDE, AS AN FORMER POLICE OFFICER, I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN FOLKS USING THEIR GUNS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES IN THEIR HOME FROM INTRUDERS.

YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF HAVING TO KEEP YOUR GUN LOCKED IN A SAFE OR UNLOADED WITH THE TRIGGER LOCK ON IT IF SOMEBODY BREAKS INTO YOUR HOME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND YOURSELF QUICKLY AND GHEALT THAT SITUATION?

>> WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAW THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, IT'S IF THERE ARE CHILDREN OR MINORS AROUND.

SO I CAN GO BACK TO -- MY WIFE AND I WERE BOTH RETIRED LIEUTENANTS.

OUR BOYS WERE YOUNGER.

IT WASN'T JUST OUR SONS THAT WE HAD TO PROTECT THE GUNS FROM, IT WAS THEIR FRIENDS THAT WOULD COME OVER THAT KNEW WHAT W DID.

SO YOU HAVE TO USE, AGAIN, REASONABLENESS WHEN THERE'S CHILDREN INVOLVED.

THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, IF A PERSON -- THAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE WEAKEST ARGUMENTS THAT I HEAR, THE RIGHT TO DEFEND MYSELF IN MY HOME.

AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CHILDREN HERE.

I HAVE THEM STRATEGICALLY PLACED THROUGHOUT MY HOUSE AS A RETIRED OFFICER, BUT HE WHEN NEPHEWS, NIECES AND KIDS COME OVER, I DO HAVE SAFE, AS WELL.

SO LET'S JUST THINK ABOUT -- PUT THE CHILDREN FIRST PAST A RANDOM BURGLAR BREAKING IN.

I DON'T HEAR THAT MUCH ABOUT BREAK-INS WHEN PEOPLE ARE HOME.

WE CALL THEM HOME INVASIONS.

SO LET'S HAVE BETTER CONVERSATION BESIDE THAT.

>> WE HAD ONE GENTLEMAN IN COMMITTEE WHO -- I'M 60.

HE HAD TO BE AT LEAST 80.

SO I KNOW THERE WERE NO KIDS IN THAT HOUSE BUT HE USED THAT SAME ARGUMENT THAT A GUY KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR LATE AT NIGHT.

FIRST OF ALL, A BURGLAR AIRPORT GONNA KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR.

SO HE AGAIN EMOTION RULES THIS.

JUST LOCK THE GUN UP.

THEY HAVE QUICK LOCKS.

THEY HAVE THE FINGER ONES WHERE YOU USE YOUR FINGERPRINT NOW.

THERE'S WAYS TO GET AROUND THAT TO GET YOUR WEAPON QUICKLY IF YOU NEED IT.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, ARE YOU DOING OVERTIME WITH US?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> OKAY.

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER A GROUP DEMOCRATS WHO MIGHT BE OPPOSED TO LEGISLATION.

LET'S TAKE A BAN ON ASSAULT WEAPONS.

HOW WOULD YOU VOTE ON THAT, SIR?

>> I'M A DEFINITE NO.

>> A DEFINITE NO ON THAT.

>> OH, NO.

ON BANNING ASSAULT WEAPONS?

OH, ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> WHAT ABOUT THOSE OTHER GUN PERSONS IN YOUR CAUCUS.

HOW MANY ARE THERE AND CAN YOU GET OVER THAT HUMP?

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

A FEW COME TO MIND, I'M NOT GOING TO OUT THEM.

>> I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO OUT THEM, BUT GIVE ME A NUMBER.

>> I'M SAYING THAT TO MYSELF.

BUT THERE'S A FEW THAT HAVE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD CAUSE THEM A LOT OF HEARTBURN.

>> WHEN YOU SAID YOU WERE A DEFINITE NO, WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> OH, NO.

FOR THE BAN.

I'M A DEFINITE YES ON THE BAN.

>> SO IN OTHER WORDS YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET SOME REPUBLICANS, HE THEN, LIKELY TO PASS AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN.

YES?

NO?

>> THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE A "GOOD LUCK" WITH THAT ONE.

>> SO THAT IS DOA.

>> YOU NEVER KNOW.

YOU NEVER KNOW.

THE ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS PUT A GOOD FAITH EFFORT AND ATTEMPT FORWARD TO TRY TO MOVE THIS LEGISLATION THAT SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE THE APPETITE FOR.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, FOLKS WANT TO FALL BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION.

AND I'M SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, MUSK HE THE GUNS AND ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS AND USED FOR TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT PURPOSE.

>> AS A FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL, WHAT DO YOU FEEL IS THE MOST URGENT NEEDS WHEN IT COMES TO PROTECTING CITIZENS FROM CRIME RIGHT NOW, AND WHAT CAN THE LEGISLATURE DO IN YOUR MIND?

>> I THINK THAT WE NEED TO RE-HEED INDICATE NOT JUST -- PEOPLE HE KEEP TALKING ABOUT WHAT THINGS NEED TO BE DONE WITH POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

I THINK WE NEED TO RE-EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ON WHAT POLICE CAN AND CANNOT DO AND HOW YOUR INITIAL CALL CREATES WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

I GO YEARS BACK WHEN THERE WAS A YOUNG MAN, YOU KNOW, WHO WAS DEAF AND UNBEKNOWN TO THE POLICE OFFICERS WAS SWINGING A WAKE AND WOULDN'T PUT IT DOWN.

IT ENDED TRAGICALLY.

BUT THE INITIAL CALL THAT, HEY, WE HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS OVER HERE, WE HAVE DEPARTMENTS NOW THAT HAVE MOVED TO THE MENTAL HEALTH SPECTRUM AND SAY, HEY, HE LET'S TAKE SOMEBODY OUT THERE WITH THEM.

SO I THINK THAT SOME RESOURCES, SOME REIMAGINING, BUT ALSO SOME RE-EDUCATING ON, YOU KNOW, THE NEEDS OF THE POLICE.

WE STILL GET CALLS FOR BARKING DOGS.

YOU KNOW, CATS IN THE TREES, BUT WIRE LINES DOWN...

SO WE'VE GOTTA DO A BETTER JOB OF COMMUNICATING HOW WE WANT THE POLICE TO DO THEIR JOBS.

>> ALL RIGHT, REPRESENTATIVE, TAKE A TUMS FOR YOUR HEARTBURN AND WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH THE OVERTIME SESSION.

THE PANEL NEEDS THAT, TOO.

GO TO WKAR.ORG FOR OUR OVERTIME SESSION WITH THE GOOD REPRESENTATIVE.

AND WE'LL BE BACK AFTER THESE CLOSE HE CREZ.

>> PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMIRE PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONS, DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY HE ENGAGEMENT.

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