♪ ♪ WELCOME BACK OUR OTR GUEST THIS WEEK IS A NEW CHAIRPERSON OF THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS TOM ALBERT FROM MICHIGAN AND LEAD STORIES POTENTIAL VIOLENCE AT THE STATE CAPITOL AND FORMER RICK SNYDER CHARGED IN THE FLINT WATER CRISIS ON THE ORT PANEL CHAD LIVENGOOD ABIGAIL CENSKY RICK ALBIN.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

♪ ♪ THANK YOU VERY MUCH WELCOME BACK TO OUR ZOOM EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD ANOTHER HUGE BUSY NEWS WEEK IN OUR TOWN WE HAVE A GREAT PANEL AND GREAT GUEST AND GET TO THEM AFTER WE GO TO GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER ABOUT THE CAPITOL AND PUTTING SHOTS IN YOUR ARM.

GIVEN THE VIOLENCE OF THE ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL LAST WEEK GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER IS DEEPLY CONCERNED WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN HERE.

DO YOU HAVE ANY CREDIBLE THREATS OF VIOLENCE AT OUR STATE CAPITOL OR IS THIS JUST SPECULATION?

>> TIM, I CAN SAY THAT THERE IS A LOT OF CHATTER THAT IS BEING MONITORED BOTH BY OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS AND BY OUR STATE RESOURCES.

AND AS FOR SPECIFIC THREAT, THERE IS NOT ANY TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

BUT WE CAN SEE THAT THE CONVERSATION NATIONALLY IS FOCUSED ON THE 17TH.

AND WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO STAY CLOSE TO OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS AS WE ARE YOU KNOW THINKING ABOUT HOW WE ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE CAPITOL COMPLEX.

>> THE LANSING MIRROR ANDY SHORE WANTS THE GOVERNOR TO BRING IN THE NATIONAL GUARD FOR A PLANNED DEMONSTRATION AT THE STATE CAPITOL ON SUNDAY.

THE GOVERNOR WON'T DISCLOSE WHAT HER BATTLE PLAN IS.

>> THE MICHIGAN NATIONAL GUARD IS IN COORDINATION WITH THE MICHIGAN STATE POLICE AND LANSING POLICE DEPARTMENT AND INGHAM COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.

BEYOND THAT WE DO NOT AS JUST A GENERAL MATTER SHARE MORE INRICATE DETAILS LOOK LIKE AND WE ARE PREPARED IF SOMETHING SHOULD ARISE AND HOPEFUL IT DOES NOT.

>> ON COVID FRONT THEY ARE TAKING POLITICAL FIRE FOR DELAYING FEBRUARY FIRST PARTIAL OPENING OF IN ROOM DINING AND SHIRKEY DISMISSES IT TO GOVERNMENT KNOWS BEST AND QUOTE IT'S TONE DEAF AND THE GOVERNOR IS NOT READY TO OPEN THEM NOW BECAUSE OF THIS.

>> AS WE ARE LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS WE SEE AN UPTICK IN POSITIVITY AND IN TESTS AND THAT IS AS A CONCERN THAT WE ALL HAD WAS AROUND WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN WITH THE HOLIDAYS.

>> Reporter: ON THE VACCINE FRONT 8031 DOSES IN MICHIGAN OR SCHEDULED TO BE GIVEN BUT MORE VACCINES NEED TO INOCCUR LATE THE RESIDENTS AND 33,000 SHOTS GIVEN RECENTLY BUT NOT THE 50,000 SHOTS A DAY THE GOVERNOR WANTS.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SAFETY AT THE STATE CAPITOL ABIGAIL ARE WE SAFE?

THEY ARE PUTTING UP A FENCE AROUND OUR CAPITOL BUILDING THIS DAY.

>> YEAH, EVERYONE I'VE TALKED TO REMAINS CONFIDENT WHILE THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO SHARE DETAILS OF WHAT THE SPECIFIC POLICE PRESENCE IS LIKE I TALKED TO LIEUTENANT MICHAEL SHAW THIS MORNING AND HE WAS SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY STILL DON'T HAVE CREDIBLE THREATS OF VIOLENCE.

AND THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE SAW AT PREVIOUS, YOU KNOW, INSTANCES JUST EARLIER THIS YEAR, JUST BACK ON DECEMBER 14TH.

THERE WERE CRITICAL ACTS OF VIOLENCE AND THE STATE CAPITOL WAS SHUT DOWN.

SO I THINK IT'S CHILLING BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS PLANNING IS HAPPENING OFF OF MAINSTREAM SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT'S MIGRATED OFF OF FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND OTHER AREAS BECAUSE THESE TECH COMPANIES HAVE STARTED ENFORCING GUIDELINES MORE STRICTLY AND THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE PLANNING THESE TYPES OF EVENTS HAVE ESSENTIALLY BEEN DEPLATFORMED.

SO IT'S MIGRATED TO KIND OF THIRD AND FOURTH TIER APPS LIKE ME WEE AND GAB.

SO I THINK THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM OFFICIALS IS THAT THEY ARE BEING ALMOST OVERLY CAUTIOUS.

WE KNOW IT'S A BIG THREAT AFTER WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED AT THE U.S. CAPITOL THIS WEEK.

BUT THEY ARE CONFIDENT THEY ARE MAKING ADEQUATE PREPARATIONS AND WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE IS THEY DON'T WANT TO WAKE UP MONDAY MORNING THINKING THEY COULD HAVE DONE MORE.

>> I'VE TALKED TO A FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE SIMILARLY I THINK OPTIMISTIC THAT THEY WILL HAVE THE SITUATION UNDER CONTROL.

BUT I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT AFTER WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN IN WASHINGTON DC THAT IT WOULD BE A FALLACY TO UNDER PREPARE AND IF YOU HAVE MORE RESOURCES THAN YOU NEED IN PLACE, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A GOOD THING.

AND I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ABIGAIL.

I THINK A LOT OF THIS CONVERSATION HAS MOVED TO OTHER PLACES.

I'M RELATIVELY CERTAIN THAT THE OFFICIALS ARE ABLE TO TRACK THAT AND KEEP AN EYE ON THAT AS WELL EVEN THOUGH IT MAY BE A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT WITH YOU KNOW A MORE SPREAD OUT CONVERSATION.

BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN ON SUNDAY JUST GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF CONVERSATION THERE HAS BEEN OUT THERE ABOUT IT.

AND THE FACT THAT I THINK TENSIONS AND EMOTIONS ARE STILL RUNNING HIGH.

>> TIM, WE VIEW THE STATE HOUSE AS THE MOST SACRED PLACE AT LEAST THE LANSING INSIDERS WHO LOOK AT THIS AND WORK IN THIS INSTITUTION EVERYDAY.

SO I AGREE OVER PROTECTING IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A BIG DEAL, I'M NOT SURE WHO IS REALLY GOING TO CRITICIZE JUST BEING OVER PREPARED FOR WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN.

>> WELL, THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T WANT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION WOULD SHE CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD BUT HERE IS A GUESS FROM 30,000 FEET I THINK THEY ARE ON STAND BY AND THE ARMORY IS NEARBY AND IF THEY NEED TO BE TRUCKED IN THEY CAN DO IT IN A SECOND IF THAT IS NEEDED.

AND IN THE CONTEXT THE STATE CAPITOL COMMISSION DID SOMETHING THEY THOUGHT WOULD HELP PROTECT PEOPLE IN THE CAPITOL AND THAT IS THEY BAN OPEN CARRY AND, RICK, IT DID NOT OPEN TO GREAT REVIEWS FROM EITHER SIDE.

>> NO, IT DIDN'T.

FOR SOME IT WAS AN INFRINGEMENT ON THE OPEN CARRY LAW IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND FOR OTHERS IT WAS JUST A HALF STEP THAT THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THE CONCEALED CARRY WAS ALSO RESTRICTED IN THE CAPITOL.

AND IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION FROM THE STAND POINT OF SAFETY.

I KNOW THAT AFTER I CAME BACK TO THE STATE, AFTER 9/11 I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED AND REMAIN SO THAT THE CAPITOL WAS AS OPEN AS IT WAS.

THERE ARE YOU KNOW NO METAL DETECTORS GOING IN.

IT'S PRETTY FREE FLOW IN AND OUT, NOT AS MUCH OBVIOUSLY DURING COVID BUT IN A NORMAL TIME SO THE QUESTION OF HOW OPEN DO YOU KEEP THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE VERSUS HOW DO YOU TRY TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE INSIDE THAT HOUSE.

AND THOSE THAT WOULD VISIT AS WELL.

IS AN INTERESTING ONE.

AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT, TIM, THE DECISION BY THE CAPITOL COMMISSION TO DO AWAY WITH OPEN CARRY INSIDE THE BUILDING FOR BOTH SEE I THINK WAS A MEASURE EITHER A HALF STEP TOO FAR OR A HALF STEP TOO SHORT AND I THINK IT'S CONVERSATION WE WILL CONTINUE TO HEAR.

>> ALL RIGHT I WANT TO MOVE, GO AHEAD, CHAD.

>> WE HAVE TO GO ACROSS ALLEGAN STREET TO FIND A STUNNINGLY DIFFERENT EXAMPLE OF A GOVERNMENT BUILDING FORTIFIED THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE AND POST OFFICE.

REMEMBER A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN THEY INSTALLED THE STEEL BOWARDS ALONG THERE, THEY WERE AFRAID SOMEONE WOULD JUMP THE CURB AND DRIVE A TRUCK RIGHT INTO THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE IN LANSING.

SO AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH METAL DETECTORS TO GET IN THE COURTHOUSE SIDE OF THAT BUILDING AS WELL.

SO WE HAVE JUST A REALLY BIZARRE DIFFERENT STANDARD FOR THE STATE HOUSE AND EVERY OTHER GOVERNMENT BUILDING IN THIS STATE FROM DETROIT CITY HALL TO COUNTY COURTHOUSES.

THERE ARE SCANNER OR THERE ARE METAL DETECTORS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT HAULING GUNS INTO THERE.

WE HAVE NOT GOT TO THAT POINT IN MICHIGAN BECAUSE WE ARE STILL ALLOWING CONCEALED WEAPONS INTO THE CAPITOL.

>> ABIGAIL QUICKLY ON THE VACCINE FRONT HOW ARE WE DOING?

>> I MEAN I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK JUST AS FAR AS CHAD'S REPORTING TO SEE THAT WE ARE NOT DOING WELL OR AS WELL AS THE WITNESS MERADMINISTRATION WOULD HAVE ANTICIPATED.

THEY ARE ALLEGING THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE RECEIVING FAR FEWER VACCINES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND THAT CERTAINLY HAS BEEN YOU KNOW TRUE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE NOT JUST HEARING THAT FROM MICHIGAN.

BUT I THINK IT ALSO DEPENDS ON WHAT COUNTY YOU'RE IN.

IN INGHAM COUNTY THEY ARE MAKING APPOINTMENTS BUT THERE IS YOU KNOW A LONG WAIT UP UNTIL FEBRUARY FOR JUST THE FIRST, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL TIERS OF GROUPS WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE THE VACCINE RIGHT NOW.

AND SO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST ABOVE 16 AND OLDER AND THE GENERAL POPULATION AND THE VERY LAST GROUP THEY MIGHT BE RECEIVING THE VACCINE MUCH LATER IN 2021 THAN ANTICIPATED.

>> TIM, THE STATE PUBLISHED A TIMELINE THIS WEEK THAT REALLY KIND OF STICKS OUT AT THIS POINT THAT FOLKS 60 AND OLDER NOT AN ESSENTIAL WORKER AND WORKING FROM HOME SHOULD NOT EXPECT TO SEE THE VACCINE UNTIL AUGUST.

SO THIS IDEA WE WILL ALL BE NORMAL BY LATE SUMMER SEEMS TO BE FADING AWAY PRETTY QUICKLY HERE THE SECOND OR THIRD WEEK IN JANUARY.

>> ALL RIGHT RICK WE HEARD FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND FORMER RICK SNYDER CHARGED WITH TWO COUNTS OF WILLINGFUL NEGLECT OF DUTY PEOPLE ARE ASKING ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD CALL IT -- CONSIDER MYSELF SURPRISED.

I DO THINK THAT IT OPENS UP A VERY INTERESTING CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT YOU AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL CAN AND CANNOT DO, SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT DO AND HOW YOU WILL OR WILL NOT BE JUDGED.

AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A CASE TO BE MADE THAT THIS COULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON THAT.

SO AM I SURPRISED THAT THERE WERE CHARGES?

PROBABLY NOT.

A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN CHARGES WERE DROPPED AND THIS NEW INVESTIGATION BEGAN, I THINK THE EXPECTATION WAS THAT THERE WOULD BE CHARGES AND SO WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THEM NOW.

NINE DIFFERENT PEOPLE CHARGED ON A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPE OF CHARGES BUT THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A FORMER GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN WHO HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH ESSENTIALLY NEGLECTING PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION TO THE PEOPLE WORKING FOR HIM.

IF I YOU KNOW COULD BOIL IT DOWN TO MY OWN VERY SIMPLISTIC LANGUAGE.

AND I JUST I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY INTERESTING CASE TO SEE HOW THAT TURNS OUT AND WHAT IMPACT THAT COULD HAVE GOING FORWARD ON OTHER GOVERNORS AND OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS.

>> CHAD?

>> TO THAT POINT I MEAN THIS CURRENT OCCUPANT OF THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS SOME REAL ISSUES WITH SOME OF THE POLICIES RELATED TO NURSING EMHOWS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

NURSING HOMES HAVE BEEN GROUND ZERO FOR DEATH IN THIS STATE.

37% OF THE DEATHS, 7.5% OF THE CASES IN MICHIGAN TOTALLY OUT OF WHACK.

AND SO THE MEDIA YOU KNOW BEING IF I'M THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN RIGHT NOW I'M HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A PAUSE ABOUT AN ATTORNEY GENERAL GOING AFTER A GOVERNOR OVER DECISION MAKING THAT WENT MAYBE WAY FURTHER DOWN THE LINE.

AND THEN THERE IS A GENERAL QUESTION OF YOU KNOW, THE CASE IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE INDICTMENTS THAT CAME DOWN YESTERDAY THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE THAN WHAT TODD FLOOD UNDER BILL SCHUTTE AND THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF GERD IS BASED ON ALLEGED FALSE TESTIMONY HE MADE IN FEBRUARY OF 2017.

SAME THING FOR RICH BAIRD THE GOVERNOR'S FORMER RIGHT HAND MAN AND LOOKS LIKE THE SAME CASES WILL BE LAID OUT AS FAR AS MANSLAUGHTER AGAINST NICK LIONS THE FORMER HEALTH DIRECTOR AND EDEN WELLS THE FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXECUTIVE.

SODA THAT NESSEL'S TEAM IS CARVING A VERY SIMILAR PATH THAT BILL SCHUTTE'S TEAM WAS WELL DOWN BEFORE SHE DROPPED THOSE CHARGES IN JUNE OF 19 AND STARTED OVER.

>> IN ALL THERE WERE 42 COUNTS AGAINST THE NINE PEOPLE AND RICK IF YOU LOOKED AT THE ALLEGATIONS THAT THE AG'S OFFICE BROUGHT FORTH IT APPEARED FROM FIRST BLUSH IT LOOKS LIKE RICH BAIRD HAS THE MOST PROBLEMS EXTORTION, PERJURY AND TWO OTHER CHARGES IN THERE.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> WELL, YOU ASKED EARLIER WAS I SURPRISED, I WAS SURPRISED BY THOSE.

THEY ARE DEALING WITH INFORMATION I DON'T HAVE.

SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT'S BASED ON.

BUT YES I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.

I THINK HE IS FACING A SERIOUS LEGAL HURDLE.

AND I THINK IT WILL, AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING FOR THOSE OF US WHO WILL WATCH THIS CLOSELY TO SEE EXACTLY HOW DID THOSE CHARGES COME ABOUT.

WHAT WAS THE THREAT APPARENTLY THAT HE MADE AGAINST INVESTIGATORS AT SOME POINT.

YOU KNOW, HOW DID THAT PLAY OUT.

WHAT WAS IT.

AND AGAIN BEING VERY CAUTIOUS TO POINT OUT I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY I STILL THINK THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT ALL OF THESE ARE ALLEGATIONS.

NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN.

NOTHING WILL BE PROVEN UNTIL THIS GOES THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM SO IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT PROOF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WILL BRING FORWARD.

BUT I WOULD THINK ALL OF THESE EVEN THOUGH SOME OF THEM HAVE LESSER CONSEQUENCES I THINK THEY ARE ALL QUITE SERIOUS AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A VERY INTERESTING SET OF TRIALS TO WATCH.

>> TIM.

>> WE HAVE TO CALL IN OUR GUEST REPRESENTATIVE TOM ALBERT ON WEST MICHIGAN AND THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE AND WE WILL GET STARTED WITH EMILY GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.

>> THANKS TIM.

>> HI REPRESENTATIVE.

YOU KNOW, THE INCOMING BIDEN/HARRIS ADMINISTRATION JUST ANNOUNCED THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO PASS ANOTHER 1.9 TRILLION DOLLAR STIMULUS PACKAGE.

AND THE MICHIGAN STATE BUDGET CERTAINLY COULDN'T HAVE BEEN HEALTHY LAST YEAR WITHOUT FEDERAL AID.

HOW MUCH AID DO YOU ANTICIPATE WILL BE NECESSARY IN THE BUDGET GOING FORWARD AND WHAT KIND OF DEFICITS DO YOU ANTICIPATE THE STATE OF MICHIGAN WILL FACE BECAUSE OF COVID-19?

>> YEAH, THANKS ABIGAIL.

APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.

IT'S JUST THERE IS TOO MANY VARIABLES FOR ME TO REALLY HAVE AN ESTIMATE ON THAT.

IF YOU LOOK SO THE CONSENSUS REVENUE CONFERENCE WILL COME OUT TODAY.

AND IT'S GOING TO -- THE HEADLINE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE IT'S AN ROSY PICTURE AND LOOK LIKE WE HAVE LOTS OF MONEY.

BUT THE REASON IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THAT, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IS BECAUSE WE HAD ESTIMATED A 15% REDUCTION IN REVENUE FOR TAX REVENUE AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING MORE LIKE A 7% REDUCTION SO IT'S ACTUALLY LAST YEAR WAS NOT AS BAD AS WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

LIKE ARE WE GOING TO START REOPENING?

ARE WE GOING TO START HAVING MORE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY FROM THE BOTTOM UP?

THAT JUST CHANGES SO MUCH OF WHAT WE CAN EXPECT FOR REVENUES.

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT WE HAVE SEEN LAST YEAR WAS IT WAS TOP DOWN.

THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE AS ROSY OF A PICTURE AS WE HAVE NOW IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LITERALLY PUMPED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

THAT WAS WAS PPP LOAN AND 600, UIA AND DIRECT PAYMENTS TO TAXPAYERS ALL OF THAT MONEY CAME IN THROUGH SALES TAX REVENUE AND YOU KNOW CORPORATE INCOME TAX WAS HIGH AS WELL.

SO I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION AS TO WHAT TO EXPECT.

BUT WE ARE DEFINITELY NOT OUT OF THE WOODS.

>> REPRESENTATIVE TIM STARTED BY CONGRATULATING YOU ON YOUR NEW POSITION.

I GUESS I WILL DO THAT TOO WITH A BIT OF CAUTION BECAUSE THERE COULD BE SOME INCOMING FIRE IN THIS NEW POSITION GIVEN THE PRESSURES THAT MAY BE ON THE STATE BUDGET AND ALSO THE DIFFERENCES THAT THE REPUBLICAN-LED HOUSE AND SENATE MAY HAVE WITH THIS GOVERNOR.

THERE HAS BEEN CONVERSATION ABOUT WITHHOLDING MONEY OR WITHHOLDING FUNDS FROM SOME EXPENDITURES.

UNTIL THE GOVERNOR MORE FULLY OPENS UP THE STATE, CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT A LITTLE BIT?

AND WHAT THE -- HOW SERIOUS THAT IS AND ALSO HOW FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE OR IRRESPONSIBLE THAT WOULD BE?

>> WELL THANKS FOR THAT QUESTION, RICK.

I THINK IT'S FUNNY THE WAY MY PRESS RELEASE HAS BEEN PRESENTED IN THE MEDIA.

I ACTUALLY DID NOT USE THE WORD WITHHOLDING ONCE THIS THAT ENTIRE RELEASE.

WHAT I SAID WAS UNLESS WE START REOPENING I'M NOT GOING TO START HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE GOVERNOR SO WE NEED TO HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN THE STATE.

WE HAVE NOT OVER THIS LAST YEAR.

THE GOVERNOR HAS CONTINUED TO TRY TO MAKE UNILATERAL DECISIONS.

AND SOME OF THESE HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY DISERASTOUS.

SO WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER OF THE PURSE AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THE MONEY GETS OUT THERE IN WAYS THAT BOTH CAN HELP PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY IN A LOT OF NEED RIGHT NOW AND ALSO AT THE SAME TIME MAKING SURE WE HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

>> BUT REPRESENTATIVE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TALK TO HER.

YOU AND THE SENATE WILL DO THIS ON YOUR OWN AND JUST LEAVE HER OUT?

>> IT'S UP TO THE GOVERNOR.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS NEVER DONE EVEN IN MY TENURE.

IN 2017 WHEN I WAS WORKING ON PENSION REFORM FOR THE STATE TEACHERS PENSION SYSTEM THE GOVERNOR WAS NOT ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE LEGISLATURE SO HE WASN'T INVOLVED IN BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS UNTIL HE DECIDED TO WORK WITH US.

>> LET'S BE CLEAR HERE IF SHE SAYS I'M NOT GOING TO REOPEN ON YOUR SCHEDULE BUT ON MY SCHEDULE YOU WON'T TALK TO HER ON COVID SPENDING, FAIR STATEMENT?

>> LET'S HOPE IT DOESN'T COME TO THAT, TIM.

>> WELL, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

>> TIM, I'M GOING TO STICK TO MY GUNS ON THIS AND STICK TO MY STATEMENT.

SHE STARTS REOPENING WE WILL START TALKING.

>> AND IF SHE DOESN'T YOU WON'T?

>> HOPEFULLY SHE GETS THE MESSAGE.

>> CHAD.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN REALLY DO IN BOILERPLATE TO YOU KNOW MANDATE REOPENINGS.

SHE CAN JUST SAY IT'S UNENFORCEABLE BOILERPLATE OR LINE ITEM VETO YOUR SPENDING DECISIONS OR VETO THE WHOLE THING.

SHE IS NOT AFRAID TO DO THAT, SHE HAS PROVEN THAT A COUPLE TIMES NOW RIGHT?

>> SHE HAS VETOED FUNDING FOR SCHOOL SAFETY GRANTS AND AUTISM AND WILLING TO REALLY VETO WHAT EVER NEEDED TO USE THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN AS PAWNS TO MEET HER POLITICAL OBJECTIVE.

SO YOU KNOW I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

>> WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE'S PACKAGE OF POLICIES GOING FORWARD WITH DEALING WITH THE PANDEMIC?

BECAUSE AS WE NOTED EARLIER, FOLKS AGE 16 AND UP WHO ARE NOT IN ONE OF THESE OR BASICALLY 16-65 THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET THE VACCINE UNTIL MID TO LATE SUMMER AT THIS RATE OF ROLL OUT BASED ON HOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS DONE SO FAR.

SO WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE'S PLAN FOR MITIGATING, YOU KNOW, MORE DEATH IN THIS STATE?

>> WELL, ONE THING I THINK BEFORE I GET TO THAT ONE THING I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT ONE THING I WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY IF I WAS IN CHARGE WE WOULD HAVE A COUNTY BY COUNTY APPROACH BASED ON DATA.

RIGHT NOW HERE IS THE PROBLEM WE WERE 48 HOURS BEFORE THE DEADLINE WAS SUPPOSED TO EXPIRE TODAY ON THE 15TH AND RESTAURANT OWNERS HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO EXPECT.

AND EVEN CALIFORNIA HAS A METRIC-BASED SYSTEM SO BUSINESS OWNERS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO WORK TO PUT A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD AND FEED THEIR KIDS CAN AT LEAST HAVE SOME HOPE AND SOME IDEA AND SOME CLARITY AS TO WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO WORK.

IT'S NOT THAT HARD.

I MEAN, IT CAN BE BASED -- OTHER STATES BASED ON POSITIVITY RATES OF TESTING, BASED ON CASE GROWTH, BASED ON HOSPITALIZATION RATE IN THAT REGION SO THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT THAT I WANT TO GET OUT THERE.

I'M NOT SAYING WE NEED TO JUST CART BLANCHE OPEN THE STATE AND NOT HAVE ANY THOUGHT OR ANY ANALYSIS INTO HOW TO DO IT SAFELY.

I'M JUST SAYING IT NEEDS TO BE MORE TRANSPARENT AND PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY'RE EXPECTATIONS ARE.

NOW AS TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE DIFFERENT AGES AND WHEN THEY WILL GET VACCINES IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY CLEAR AND JUST LOOKED AT C.D.C.

'S DATA FROM THE PAST WEEK IF YOU ARE UNDER 50 YEARS OLD IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF KNOWN POSITIVE CASES AND MORTALITIES THERE IS .3% OF DEATH.

UP TO 85 AND OLDER THE MORTALITY IS 21% SO THERE IS A PRETTY STARK DIFFERENCE AND THAT GOES IN THE VACCINE ROLL OUT, VACCINE ROLL OUT HAS BEEN AN UTTER DISASTER.

I DID LOGISTICS IN THE MARINE CORPS SO I ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA.

AND I CAN TELL YOU THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS IT'S A TOP DOWN APPROACH AND PEOPLE THAT ARE DOWN AT THE BOTTOM ARE NOT HAVING INPUT IN DECISIONS.

I TALKED TO HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW THEY DON'T KNOW WHEN THE SHIPMENTS WILL COME IN AND HOW MANY THEY WILL GET.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THERE MIGHT BE AN ISSUE OF THE STATES NOT GETTING AS MUCH OF THE VACCINES AS THEY WANT, THEY CAN STILL PLAN PROPERLY WITH WHAT THEY HAVE.

SO AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE FIRST SHOT IS THE TWO-SHOT PROCESS.

THE FIRST SHOT ONLY IS 52% EFFECTIVE.

BUT THREE WEEKS LATER AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT YOU GET IT IN THAT THREE WEEK WINDOW BECAUSE IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE IF YOU GET IT AT A DIFFERENT TIMEFRAME IT GOES UP TO 95 PERCENT EFFECTIVE SO HOSPITALS ARE CONCERNED WHEN IT COMES TO THE SECOND SHOT THEY WON'T HAVE THE SUPPLY THEY NEED.

>> REPRESENTATIVE DO YOU SUPPORT THE BAN OF OPEN CARRY IN THE MICHIGAN LEGISLATURE, SIR?

>> I DO NOT SUPPORT THE CAPITOL COMMISSION DOING IT.

I DON'T FEEL THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO SO.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BUT I THINK IT NEEDS TO COME THROUGH A LEGISLATIVE CHANNEL AND WE ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD BE MAKING DETERMINATIONS LIKE THAT.

>> IS THE LEGISLATURE GOING TO VOTE TO UNDO THAT?

>> THAT'S A QUESTION FOR SPEAKER WENTWORTH.

>> WELL.

>> ON THE BOARD.

>> WELL, YOU WOULD SUPPORT A BILL TO UNDO WHAT THE CAPITOL COMMISSION DID, IS THAT FAIR?

>> I DON'T WANT TO PUT IT THAT WAY, TIM, IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M AGAINST IT.

I'M IN THE CAPITOL AND I HAVE A FAMILY TO SUPPORT AND WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S SAFE.

I HAVE YOU KNOW THE MOST CONFIDENCE I COULD HAVE IN OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT WE HAVE IN THE CAPITOL AND THE STATE POLICE THAT ARE THERE.

I THINK THEY DO A GREAT JOB.

THAT BEING SAID I'M A STRONG SUPPORTER OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT BUT THE OPEN CARRY ON THE CAPITOL I DON'T THINK IS NECESSARY AND IF THERE IS A BILL TO YOU KNOW TO REMOVE OPEN CAR ARE I IN THE CAPITOL I WOULD SUPPORT IT.

>> TWO MINUTES LEFT ABIGAIL THEN WE WILL DO OVER TIME BUT ABIGAIL BACK TO YOU.

>> YOU KNOW ONE OF THE REASONS THE CAPITOL COMMISSION SAID THIS WEEK THAT THEY DIDN'T GO AS FAR AS BANNING CONCEALED CARRY IN THE CAPITOL WAS BECAUSE OF BUDGET CONCERNS.

DO YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE AN APPETITE THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE TO PASS A BILL BANNING CONCEALED CARRY OR APPROPRIATE SOME FUNDS AT LEAST FOR ADDITIONAL OFFICERS TO CHECK PERMITS OR HAVE METAL DETECTORS OR BAG CHECKS, THAT KIND OF THING?

>> I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE EXPLORED THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

YOU KNOW, CHAD, YOUR POINT YOU HAD MADE EARLIER ABOUT COMPARING THE STATE CAPITOL TO THE FEDERAL BUILDINGS AND THE COURTHOUSE NEXT DOOR, YOU KNOW, IT'S A FAIRWAY TO THINK OF IT.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND I IMAGINE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF ESPECIALLY FOURTH GRADERS COME THROUGH THE CAPITOL EVERY YEAR, SO YOU KNOW LOGISTICALLY ARE WE GOING TO YOU KNOW MAKE IT SO HARD FOR GROUPS LIKE THAT TO COME THROUGH THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY CLOSING OFF THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN BEING ABLE TO COME AND YOU KNOW, LEARN THE HISTORY OF THEIR STATE.

SO I DO THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION TO KEEP IN MIND AS WELL.

THERE WOULD BE A BIG COST TO DO TO ADD METAL DETECTORS AND ADDITIONAL SECURITY AND THAT'S THE TYPE OF THING WHERE I WOULD NEED TO SEE WHAT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ARE RECOMMENDING BEFORE I COULD WEIGH IN ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> VERY GOOD REPRESENTATIVE WE ARE GOING TO DO AN OVER TIME SEGMENT AND WRAP UP IN THE GOVERNOR ACCUSED OR ALLEGED THAT YOU WERE HOLDING THE COVID MONEY HOSTAGE DO YOU PLEAD GUILTY YEAH OR NAY?

>> DID I USE THE WORD HOSTAGE IN THAT PRESS RELEASE?

>> SHE DID.

SHE USED THE WORD HOSTAGE.

>> ALL I SAID IS I WOULD LIKE TO WORK TOGETHER.

>> VERY GOOD.

I WANT TO GO HOME.

OKAY SIT TIGHT WE WILL BE BACK WITH AFTER CLOSED CREDITS WITH MORE WITH THE CHAIR APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE REPRESENTATIVE TOM ALBERT.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD VISIT WKAR.ORG MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.