>> WELCOME BACK TO THE SPECIAL REPUBLICAN FOR GOVERNOR PRIMARY EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH CANDIDATES.

RYAN KELLEY, RALPH REBANDT, KEVIN RINKE AND GARRETT SOLDANDO OFF THE RECORD, GETTING THE INSIDE OUT.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY -- AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR AND WE'LL MEET THE CANDIDATES IN A SECOND BUT A COUPLE OF HOUSE KEEPING CHORES.

THIS IS DIVIDED INTO TWO PARTS, ONE SEEN ON ALL THE MICHIGAN PUBLIC TV STATIONS AND THEN THE SECOND PART WILL BE ON THE INTERNET AT WKAR.ORG.

YOU'LL WANT TO WRITE THAT DOWN.

AS FAR AS THE RULES ARE CONCERNED, CANDIDATES HAVE A MINUTE THEY CAN USE FOR THE RESPONSE TO THE QUESTIONS AND THE STATION MANAGEMENT WANTS TO CLARIFY THAT THE STATIONS DID INVITE ALL FIVE CANDIDATES TO APPEAR BUT LAST WEEK, DIXON CAMPAIGN NOTIFIED US THEY WERE DECLINING THE INVITATION.

LET'S INTRODUCE OURSELVES.

>> GARRETT SOLDANO, I'M A CHIROP >> RALPH REBANDT, I'M A PASTOR.

RYAN KELLEY, I OWN A REAL ESTATE FIRM.

>> KEVIN RINKE, I'M A BUSINESSMAN.

>> DOC, IF YOU WERE GOVERNOR AT THE TIME, WOULD YOU HAVE SUPPORTED THE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR AID PACKAGE FOR GENERAL MOTORS TO BUILD PLANTS IN MICHIGAN?

>> WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO ATTRACT BUSINESSES TO MICHIGAN.

>> WOULD YOU HAVE SUPPORTED IT?

>> YES.

>> ISN'T THAT CORPORATE WELFARE?

>> WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING.

I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THE LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR WHITMER SIGNED IT BUT WE HAVE TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO GET BUSINESSES BY HERE.

AS MICHIGAN'S NEXT GOVERNOR, WE TREED TO ATTRACT COMPANIES BY MAKING SURE NO GOVERNOR CAN WEAPONIZE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AGAIN.

>> SOMETHING YOUR FRIENDS VOTED AGAINST THE PACKAGE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

OBVIOUSLY THEY SAW THIS THING DIFFERENTLY.

WERE THEY WRONG?

>> IT GOES BACK TO WHAT I JUST SAID.

WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN UNTIL WE SWITCH THE CULTURE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN TO ATTRACT BUSINESSES, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO LOSE THEM.

>> PASTOR, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE HANDLED IT?

>> I AM AGAINST CORPORATE WELFARE AND I HAVE SAID THAT FOR THE LAST YEAR.

>> WHAT IS WRONG WITH CORPORATE WELFARE?

>> ALLOWS GOVERNMENT TO PICK AND LOSE WINNERS AND -- TO PICK WINNERS AND LOSERS.

THAT'S NOT OUR JOB TO DO THAT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN MICHIGAN HERE, THAT THAT WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO ATTRACT BUSINESES TO MICHIGAN.

WE KNOW CORPORATE WELFARE FAILS.

MY IN-LAWS LIVE IN ALLEN PARK AND FOR CRYING OUT LORD, THERE WAS $167 MILLION ON BRINGING HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS INTO THOSE EMPTY PLANTS AT FORD MOTOR AND LEFT AND NOTHING HAPPENED AS A RESULT.

JUST WASTED MONEY >> IF YOU DIDN'T COMPETE FOR THESE JOBS, THEY GO TO OHIO.

WOULD YOU BE HAPPY AS GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN SEEING JOBS GOING TO THE NEIGHBORING STATE?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THAT'S WHY I WOULD LOWER THE CORPORATE RATE FROM 4.5 TO 2.5 TO MAKE IT MORE ATTRACTIVE AND ALSO GET RID OF THE GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT AND ALL OF THOSE REGULATIONS THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE THAT ARE CHASING COMPANIES AWAY FROM HERE.

>> MR. KELLEY, WHAT WOULD YOU EVER DONE?

>> NOT SUPPORTED IT.

THERE'S MORE INFORMATION OUT NOW THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, SPECIAL DEALS THAT THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW ABOUT.

I'M READING MORE ON THAT TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM.

THIS CORPORATE WELFARE IS TAKING FROM SOME SMALLER BUSINESSES AND GIVING TO THE BIG BUSINESSES.

$700 BILLION TO GM, 135 MILLION, I THINK IT WAS, TO FORD AND THIS IS JUST ANOTHER DISPLAY OF OUR GOVERNMENT TAKING TAXPAYER MONEY AND GIVING IT TO BIG BUSINESSES.

>> WHAT HAVE YOU GOT AGAINST CREATING JOBS?

>> CREATING JOBS IS A VERY GOOD THING BUT WE CAN'T JUST LOOK AT BIG AUTO MAKERS IN ORDER TO CREATE JOBS.

I THINK THAT IF WE WERE TO BRING IN SMALL BUSINESSES, A VARIETY OF INDUSTRIES, IT CREATES JOBS ALL OVER THE STATE.

THE CORPORATE INCOME TAX, WHICH IS 6%, I BELIEVE NEEDS TO BE AT LEAST CUT IN HALF, IF NOT ELIMINATED.

LOOK AT THE STATES THAT HAVE THE CORPORATE INCOME TAX ELIMINATED.

THEY'RE ATTRACTING DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS, INDUSTRIES TO COME AND CREATE JOBS IN THEIR STATE.

>> LET'S DO THE MATH HERE.

THE GM JOBS WERE ABOUT 1700 JOBS.

YOU WOULD NICKEL AND DIME JOBS, FIND SIX AT A TIME?

>> WE PAID 167 MILLION FOR JOB AND MOST OF THEM AREN'T MAKING THAT AMOUNT OF DOLLARS.

>> MR. KEVIN RINKE?

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

>> I THINK THAT DECISION AS BIG CORPORATIONS TRADITIONALLY DO, WAS MADE LONG BEFORE THAT PACKAGE WAS OFFERED.

AS A RESULT IT WAS CREATED, THE BILLION DOLLAR FUND, ABOUT 60 DAYS BEFORE THEY DOLED OUT $700 MILLION OF IT.

IT APPEARED TO ME THAT GRETCHEN WHITMER NEEDED TO WIN BECAUSE OTHER CORPORATE DECISIONS TO LEAVE THE STATE OF MICHIGAN HAD TAKEN PLACE AND SHE WAS UNDER PRESSURE.

SHE WAS UNDER PRESSURE FOR THE FAILURES.

SO I THINK THAT IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE 167 OR 169,000 BUCKS PER JOB.

I LAUGHED.

I THINK SHE OVERPAID.

I THINK GM WAS GOING TO BE THERE NO MATTER WHAT.

AND I THINK THAT WHEN SHE IS SPENDING TAXPAYERS' MONEY, SHE NEEDS TO LOOK AT THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE HERE ALREADY AND LOOK TO RELIEVE THEM.

>> SO YOU WOULD HAVE VETOED THAT PACKAGE.

>> I WOULD NOT HAVE SIGNED IT THE WAY IT WENT THROUGH.

I THINK SHE WAY OVERPAID FOR THAT.

>> WAIT A SECOND.

THAT WAS A BIPARTISAN VOTE.

MEMBERS OF YOUR PARTY VOTED FOR THAT, SIR.

DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE RIGHT.

DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE RIGHT.

I DON'T AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT THE REPUBLICANS DO.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING THE DEMOCRATS DO.

THERE'S RIGHT AND THERE'S WRONG.

AND THE SIMPLE FACT IS WE NEED A CLIMATE IN MICHIGAN TO ALLOW PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN.

CURRENTLY WE DON'T HAVE THAT CLIMATE AND IT'S A COMBINATION OF TAXES AND REGULATIONS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN THE LEGISLATURE, WHEN IT HAS LEADERSHIP, CAN EFFECTIVELY ADDRESS THAT.

IT WILL MAKE THAT -- >> WE'LL MOVE ON.

>> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE YOU LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER.

WILL YOU HELP ME OUT THROUGH THIS?

YOU WERE CRITICAL OF THE GOVERNOR WHEN SHE LOST THE JOBS FOR JOBS.

IT WENT TO TENNESSEE AND KENTUCKY.

WERE YOU NOT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> HOW HAVE YOU HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?

YOU CRITICIZE HER FOR LOSING ZOBZ AND BRINGING JOBS IN.

>> NOPE.

SHE DIDN'T BRING JOBS IN.

>> GM IS GOING TO CREATE JOBS, AREN'T THEY?

>> BIG JOBS WERE ALREADY THERE, TIM.

THE QUESTION BECAME, AND MY POINT IS THIS.

CORPORATIONS DON'T MAKE DECISIONS ON A DAY'S NOTICE.

THEY PREDATE THE DECISIONS AND THEY HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WAS ALREADY THERE.

THEY HAD THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ALREADY THERE.

IT MADE SENSE.

AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY COULD HAVE NEGOTIATED A BETTER DEAL THAN WHAT THEY DID.

>> I THINK IT WAS REACTIONARY ON HER PART BECAUSE SHE WAS TRYING TO SAY, I'M NOT LOSING THE BUSINESS CLIMATE.

AND ACTUALLY, SHE HAS BEEN.

>> PASTOR, IF YOU WERE GOVERNOR AT THE TIME, WOULD YOU HAVE PUT DETROIT INTO BANKRUPTCY?

>> I WOULD NOT HAVE.

>> WHY DID YOU PAUSE HERE?

>> WHY DID I PAUSE?

MY MIND WAS FLASHING BACK TO THAT WHOLE BANKRUPTCY THING SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND I WAS RECALLING THE EVENTS AROUND IT.

I CERTAINLY THINK AS GOVERNOR, AS CITIZENS IN THE STATE, WE NEED TO CARE ABOUT EACH OERP.

I'M IN FAVOR OF THE LOWER GUY.

WHI LOOK AT THE WASTE IN OUR DEMOCRATIC-RUN CITIES, IT'S JUST INCON SHENABLE.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S A DISCUSSION, SHOULD DAN GILBERT GET $200 MILLION TAX BREAK.

WHEN I WAS INTERVIEWED, I SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE NOT JUST THAT MIDTOWN IS IMPROVING BUT THE NEIGHBORHOODS AS WELL.

>> WAS THE BANKRUPTCY A GOOD THING FOR DETROIT?

WOULD YOU HAVE SIGNED OFF?

>> I WOULD HAVE -- GOOD QUESTION.

I THINK, YES.

I WOULD HAVE SIGNED OFF ON THE BANKRUPTCY BECAUSE WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS EXPOSE CORRUPTION AND WHAT IS GOING ON.

>> IN THE FOLLOWUP TO THAT IS, THERE WAS A SO-CALLED GRAND BARGAIN THAT WENT ALONG WITH THE DETROIT BANKRUPTCY PACKAGE WHICH WAS A COUPLE OF MILLION DOLLARS THAT WENT TO THE CITY OF DETROIT.

WOULD YOU HAVE SIGNED OFF ON THAT?

>> NO.

I WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN MORE MONEY TO THE CITY OF DETROIT.

I WANT TO RESTRUCTURE EVERYTHING.

>> THAT WAS PART OF THE DEAL.

NO MONEY, THE CITY OF DETROIT WOULD BE BLOCKED.

THEY MIGHT HAVE OBTAJECTED.

THEY NEEDED THE MONEY.

>> RIGHT.

YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE RESTRUCTURED AND FIGURED OUT.

I THINK WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN THE VICE FINANCIALLY AND IN THE SPOTLIGHT COMES ON, THEN WE KNOW THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME HUGE RESTRUCTURING AND SO NOT ONLY IN DETROIT DO WE HAVE TO DO THAT BUT THAT IN LANSING.

>> MR. KELLEY?

>> RALPH SAID HE SUPPORTED THE BANKRUPTCY BUT HE BEGAN BY SAYING HE DIDN'T SUPPORT THE BANKRUPTCY SO KIND OF CONFUSED ON HIS STATEMENTS THERE.

I WOULD HAVE LET THEM GO INTO BANKRUPTCY.

WE CONTINUED TO BAIL OUT SO MANY DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES AND DIFFERENT CITIES.

THE RESTRUCTURING OF THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NECESSARY FOR BETTER MANAGEMENT.

>> WOULD YOU HAVE GONE ALONG WITH THE GRAND BARGAIN, THOUGH?

THAT WENT ALONG WITH THE DEAL?

>> NOT NECESSARILY, NO.

AND I GUESS EVERY SINGLE SPECIFIC WOULD BE IMPORTANT BUT BAILING OUT THE CITY OF DETROIT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD SUPPORT.

>> DID YOU HOPE THAT DETROIT WOULD COME OUT OF BANKRUPTCY?

>> YES.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> MR. KEVIN RINKE, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE, SIR?

>> I THINK THE BANKRUPTCY WAS HANDLED BRILLIANTLY BY THE SNYDER ADMINISTRATION.

IT WAS NECESSARY TO GET THEM A SOLID FOOTING AND IT'S EASY TO LOOK BACK AND SEE THAT THERE WERE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WERE MISSED AND POSSIBLY THINGS THAT WERE AVOIDED THAT COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED MORE CONCRETELY.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND THE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN.

>> INCLUDING THE PACKAGE THAT CAME AFTERWARDS, THE GRAND BARGAIN.

YOU WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED THAT.

>> I DON'T HAVE THE DETAILS ENOUGH, TIM.

I CAN'T SIT HERE AND TELL YOU -- >> IT'S NOT THAT DEEP.

THEY PUT TOGETHER A PACKAGE -- >> IT IS THAT DEEP, OK?

I'M A DETAIL GUY AND I'M NOT GOING TO SPECULATE.

I DON'T QUESTION WHAT RICK SNYDER DID AND I DON'T QUESTION THE RESULT.

SO IF RICK AND HIS TEAM FELT IT WAS NECESSARY, TODAY I CONCUR WITH IT BUT I HAVEN'T STUDIED IT.

I'M JUST BEING HONEST WITH YOU.

>> LET ME BROADEN THE QUESTION AD I APPRECIATE THAT.

IN THE CONCEPT OF SENDING STATE AID TO DETROIT, ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF THAT?

>> ULTIMATELY THERE ARE MANY FACETS TO THE DEAL N. THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE, THE $2 MILLION THEY SENT TO DETROIT AND HOW THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED, I BELIEVE WAS NECESSARY TO CONCLUDE THE DEAL AND SO I SUPPORT IT.

>> MR. KELLEY, WOULD YOU HAVE VETOED THE $1 BILLION SO-CALLED PORK PACKAGE THAT PASSED THE LEGISLATURE HERE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO?

>> SO MUCH WASTEFUL SPENDING IN OUR BUDGET AND I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK.

>> EXCUSE ME.

I GOT SKIPPED.

>> SORRY.

I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.

I APOLOGIZE.

>> I OWE YOU ONE.

>> THANK YOU.

LOOK.

ESPECIALLY I AGREE WITH MR. KEVIN RINKE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW TO HELP THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, RIGHT?

SO THE BANKRUPTCY AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT ON BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT DOING THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY.

WE'RE HELPING BUSINESSES AND WE'RE BAILING THEM OUT.

IT'S LIKE THE HOUSING CRISIS IN 2008 WITH ALL THE MORTGAGES AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

IF WE DON'T HELP THEM OUT, WE GO INTO A DEPRESSION AND WE WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT MICHIGAN'S ECONOMY IS GOING BUT WE HAVE TO DO WHAT HE SAID.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE DETAILS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

>> BUT GOVERNOR SNYDER WAS RIGHT TO PUT THE CITY IN THERE.

>> YEAH.

I BELIEVE AT THE TIME IT WAS AND IT'S EASY TO NITPICK NOW AND LOOKING BACK BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION WITH THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE.

BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> SO WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE HERE, THE EQUITY PACKAGE THAT FOLLOWED AFTERWARDS WOULD HAVE GOTTEN YOUR RELUCTANT SUPPORT?

WAS THAT THE -- THE MONEY THAT CAME WITH IT, THE GRAND BARGAIN, YOU WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED THAT?

>> YEAH.

AGAIN, I NEED MORE DETAILS JUST LIKE KEVIN BUT AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISIONS AT THE TIME TO DO THE GOOD FOR THE STATE.

>> NOW MR. KELLEY HAS HAD THREE MINUTES TO THINK OF HIS QUESTIONS, YOU OWE ME ONE.

>> WASTEFUL SPENDING IN OUR STATE IS NOTHING NEW AND THE CONTINUED PORK SPENDING WE HAVE IN THE STATE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I DO SUPPORT.

>> AND YOUR REPUBLICANS SIGNED OFF ON THAT PARK -- PORK.

>> AS DID THE DEMOCRATS.

BIPARTISANSHIP IS A WAY TO MAKE FEEM PEEL GOOD BECAUSE RPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WORK TOGETHER BUT IF WE LOOK AT LIKE PUBLIC ACT 21 AND 22 WHICH QUOTE/UNQUOTE CHANGED THE AUTO INSURANCE, THAT WAS BIPARTISAN AND THAT WAS VERY DAMAGING TO SO MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND OUR RATES ARE STILL EXTREMELY HIGH.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HEAR THE WORD BIPARTISANSHIP DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A DEAL GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE.

REPUBLICANS ARE SIGNING OFF ON WASTEFUL SPENDING AS WELL.

WE HAVE A RED LEGISLATURE.

THEY SHOULD BE MORE FISCALLY RSPONSIBLE.

WE SHOULD LOOK AT ZERO BASIS BUDGETS.

WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO SPEND FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO OPERATE EFFECTIVELY, NOT JUST THROW MONEY AT SOMETHING PRETENDING THAT'S THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

>> TOM ALBERT, YOUR REPUBLICAN CHAIR OF THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE SAID, LOOK.

WE HAVE A DIVIDED LEGISLATURE.

WE NEED IT TO GET THIS BUDGET DONE SO WE NEED TO MAKE THE DEAL.

THE GOVERNOR SAID SHE WAS GOING -- SHE WAS NOT GOING TO PUT THAT STUFF IN THERE BUT WE HAVE TO GET THE BUDGET DONE ON TIME.

YOU WOULD NOT LET THE BUDGET BE ADOPTED AND ANOTHER DAY TO TRY TO FIND SOME WAY TO DO THIS?

>> YES.

JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO GET DONE DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE DO IT INCORRECTLY.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE SPEND EXTRA MONEY OF THE TAXPAYER FUNDS JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GET THIS BUDGET DONE.

BETTER PLANNING NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

WE NEED TO APPROACH THE SITUATION DIFFERENTLY AND STOP THE WASTEFUL SPENDING.

>> MR. KEVIN RINKE?

>> YEAH.

THE COST OF GOVERNMENT IN MICHIGAN HAS GROWN ROUGHLY 30% IN 3 1/2 YEARS UNDER GRETCHEN WHITMER.

RICK SNYDER'S LAST BUDGET, WE JUST APPROVED IT AND ROUGHLY $90 BILLION WAS SPENT TWO YEARS AGO.

THE BILLION DOLLAR PORK IS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN.

THEY HAVE RECORD, RECORD INFLATION THAT'S HITTING THEM.

COST OF LIVING HAS GONE UP FASTER THAN WAGE AND THEY ARE GOING BACKWARDS IN THEIR BUYING POWER AND OUR GOVERNMENT BRAGS ABOUT A BILLION DOLLARS' WORTH OF PORK OR GLOATS ABOUT IT?

I THINK IT WAS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN.

>> ISN'T IT TRUE THAT ONE PERSON'S PORK BARREL IS ANOTHER PERSON'S LEGITIMATE PROJECT BACK HOME THE PEOPLE WANTED?

>> DO YOU KNOW WHAT?

IT'S THE PEOPLE'S MONEY OF THE STATE AND IF A COMMUNITY, FOR INSTANCE, WANTS TO HAVE A SPECIAL PROJECT COME IN, THEN THAT COMMUNITY SHOULD FUND IT.

THEY GET THE ADVANTAGE OF IT 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR.

NOW IT MAY APPEAL TO TOURISM BUT THEY GET THE ADVANTAGE OF THE TOURISM THAT GOES INTO THAT COMMUNITY.

THERE ARE SEVERAL EXAMPLES WITHIN THAT PORK BARREL SPENDING THAT I WOULD HAVE LINE ITEM VETOED AND STILL GOT A BUDGET TO THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN.

>> SOME OF THEM YOU WOULD HAVE SIGNED.

>> THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT I WOULD HAVE.

>> YOU'RE SORT OF HALF ON PORK BARREL.

>> NO, SIR.

I'M NOT.

I DON'T BELIEVE IN WASTEFUL SPENDING WHATSOEVER.

I BELIEVE IN A SMALLER GOVERNMENT THAT'S FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE.

>> HOW WOULD YOU HAVE VOTED?

>> SAME THING.

WASTEFUL SPENDING.

>> VETO ALL OF IT.

>> YEAH.

WE NEED LIKE WHAT THE OTHER COLLEAGUES JUST SAID.

JUST BECAUSE YOU NEED TO GET IT DONE DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD GET IT DONE.

LET'S NOT DO IT INCORRECTLY.

WE'RE DOING INSANITY.

WE CONTINUE TO TAKE MORE MONEY FROM THE TAX PAYING DOLLARS.

WHEN IS SOMEBODY GOING TO STAND UP AND SAY, THIS IS WRONG?

WE NEED TO START BEING FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE, LOOKING AT THINGS AND HOW WE CAN CUT THE BUDGET AND PUT MORE MONEY BACK IN MICHIGAN'S POCKETS.

JUST LIKE YOU SAID WITH THE FIRST QUESTION.

IT IS SO EASY TO CONTINUE JUST TO BRIBE PEOPLE TO COME BACK HERE WITH CORPORATE WELFARE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

UNTIL WE CHANGE THE CULTURE, A LEADER GOING TO STAND UP TO THE LEGISLATURE AND SAY, NO, WE'RE DONE, WE NEED TO CUT THIS, WE NEED TO CUT THE BUDGET, WE NEED TO CUT THE WASTEFUL SPENDING AND WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE CULTURE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

IF WE CHANGE THE CULTURE, WE'RE GOING TO ATTRACT BUSINESSES BACK HERE AND HOW YOU CHANGE THE CULTURE IS LIKE I SAID BEFORE, YOU CUT SPENDING, YOU CUT REGULATIONS, YOU CUT THE CORPORATE TAX, YOU INVEST IN LONG TERM ENERGY AND SOLUTIONS AND YOU MAKE SURE NO GOVERNOR CAN WEAPONIZE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AGAIN.

IF YOU DO THOSE THINGS, YOU'LL MAKE MICHIGAN A BUSINESS FRIENDLY STATE AND WE'RE NOT BRIBING COMPANIES TO COME BACK HERE.

>> IF YOU'RE GOVERNOR, YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS SAYING YOU CAN'T VETO THIS STUFF.

I'M RUNNING FOR ELECTION BACK HOME.

>> THAT'S THE GARBAGE OF POLITICS TODAY.

AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING TO GET NEW BLOOD IN THE OFFICE TO LET AMERICANS KNOW, LET MI MICHIGANDERS KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE.

NOT POLITICIAN.

>> WHAT'S WRONG WITH BRINGING HOME THE BACON?

>> I WANT TO PUT MORE BACON IN MICHIGANDERS' POCKETS AS POSSIBLE.

WE SLAUGHTER EVERY PIG OUT THERE AND THEY'RE NOT HAVING ANY BACON.

>> I WOULD HAVE VETOED THAT.

I'VE BEEN ON RECORD SAYING I'M WILLING TO TAKE A KNIFE AND CUT AS MUCH OUT OF THE BUDGET AS WE CAN.

I'VE MENTIONED THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND WHAT -- MY SOLUTION TO THIS, TIM, IS THAT I HAVE WHAT'S CALLED OPERATION ROUND TABLE AND THE ROUND TABLE IS GOING TO BE MADE UP OF ANTI-APPROPRIATIONS GROUP OF PEOPLE, CITIZENS WHO LOOK AT THE BUDGET AND SAY, THESE ARE AREAS WE NEED TO CUT.

WE'RE REALLY GOING TO TAKE A SHARP KNIFE TO THAT.

I'VE TALKED ABOUT SAVING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OUT OF THE BUDGET AND I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.

>> SO MAKING DEALS IN THE LEGISLATURE TO GET VOTES IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU LIKE?

>> I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT AT ALL.

I'M INTERESTED IN HEARING FROM THE CITIZENS.

I'M NOT INTERESTED IN MAKING DEALS.

>> MR. KEVIN RINKE, IF YOU WERE FACED WITH A MAJOR DECISION WHEN IT CAME TO RUBBER HIT THE ROAD AND YOU HAD TO MAKE THAT CALL, IN YOUR MIND, WHAT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT?

WOULD YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO OR WHAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN THINK IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO?

>> THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN.

>> IN OTHER WORDS, YOU WOULD TURN YOURSELF OVER TO RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT BY THE POLLS.

>> NO.

NOT WHATSOEVER.

THERE'S A DIFFERENT -- THERE'S A LEADERSHIP COMPONENT.

YOU'RE THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN WHEN YOU'RE THE GOVERNOR.

YOU'RE THERE TO RUN THE BUSINESS AND POLLS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT THE CAUSE AND THE EFFECT OF RUNNING THAT BUSINESS FOR THE PEOPLE.

THEY CAN BE VERY, VERY MISLEADING.

WE'VE SEEN SOME PRETTY FUNNY POLLS COME OUT LATELY AND -- >> WELL, WOULD YOU CONCLUDE THEN THAT YOU THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO THAT YOU'RE WRONG?

>> THERE'S THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, TIM.

IT'S WORKED FOR 240 PLUS YEARS.

THERE'S A LEGISLATIVE BRANCH THAT REPRESENTS THE PEOPLE, THERE'S AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT LOOKS AT THOSE LEGISLATIVE ISSUES AND COMES IN AND MAKES THE DECISIONS TO DIRECT THE STATE AND ITSZ PEOPLE.

>> DOCTOR?

>> LOOK.

LOOK WHAT'S GOING ON AS GOVERNOR.

YOU GOVERN ALL PEOPLE.

JUST LOOK AT ROE V. WADE RIGHT NOW.

ALL RIGHT.

JUST TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION, YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR RIGHT NOW WHO IS ALREADY BYPASSING LEGISLATURE JUST LIKE SHE DID WITH THE LOCKDOWNS.

SHE'S DOING THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY, SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT.

BY FILING THE INJUNCTION, TO TELL THE LOCAL PROSECUTORS NOT TO ENFORCE 1931 LAW, SO THAT'S NOT HOW OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT WORKS.

LET ME FINISH, OK?

AS GOVERNOR, YOU GOVERN ALL PEOPLE.

IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE LAW, DUE IT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE OR A CITIZENS PETITION.

YOU HAVE TO HONOR THE LAW.

YOU MAY NOT LIKE THAT LAW BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO HONOR IT.

>> THE QUESTION WAS AS GOVERNOR, WHAT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT TO MAKING A CRITICAL DECISION?

WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT OR WHAT THE PEOPLE THINK IS RIGHT?

>> I'M ALWAYS GOING TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE.

>> MY ANSWER IS I'M GOING TO DO WHAT GOD SAYS IS APPROPRIATE FOR A PARTICULAR ISSUE.

THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM.

WHEN YOU GET IN THE TRACK, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION AND THE RIGHT DECISION IS WHAT'S RIGHT FOR BOTH THE PEOPLE AND IN OUR OWN HEARTS.

>> LET ME PARE THAT BACK.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, OK, IS IT YOUR JUDGMENT THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PEOPLE'S?

>> I COME BACK TO THE POINT WHERE WHETHER IT'S ABORTION, WHETHER IT'S BUDGE CUTS, WHETHER IT'S WHAT'S BEST FOR FAEMILIES, THIS IS WHAT MAKES ME DIFFERENT FROM EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE ON THIS STAGE.

AND I'M LOOKING AS THE FOUNDERS DID TO FILTER EVERYTHING THROUGH NOT ONLY THE CONSTITUTION BUT BASICALLY WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?

>> WHEN YOU BRING UP THE TWO DIFFERENT CHOICES, THERE'S A COUPLE OF LENS TO LOOK THROUGH.

FIRST OF ALL, JUST BECAUSE 51% OF PEOPLE THINK THAT SOMETHING IS WHETHER ACCURATE OR INACCURATE DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE RIGHT.

THERE'S DISCERNMENT AND AS GOVERNOR, YOU ARE HIRED TO THAT POSITION TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DISCERNMENT.

A, LOOKING AT WHAT'S MORAL.

A, LOOKING AT WHAT'S -- OR B, LOOKING AT WHAT'S CONSTITUTIONAL AND BEING ABLE TO DISCERN THE ENTIRE SITUATION AND YES, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT THE INDIVIDUALS, WHAT THE PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT A SITUATION THAT'S PART OF LIKE WHAT MY PEOPLE'S CABINET IS ALL ABOUT.

AND YES, HEARING THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE IS ULTIMATELY SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION BUT AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE 51% OF THE PEOPLE, THAT'S A FULL DEMOCRACY AND OUR COUNTRY IS A REPUBLIC AND NOT A DEMOCRACY.

WE DO THE RIGHT MORAL, JUST THING AND THAT'S THROUGH DISCERNMENT, PRAYER AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE LONG-TERM ISSUES WILL BE ONCE YOU MAKE THE DECISION Z.

SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANSWER CORRECTLY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT ROUGH DECISION WILL REST ON HOW YOU FINALLY JUDGE IT TO BE, RIGHT OR WRONG.

>> CORRECT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S GO TO SOME LIGHTNING ROUND QUESTIONS.

THESE ARE YES OR NO AND WE'LL START WITH THE GOOD DOCTOR.

DO YOU SUPPORT THE GOVERNOR'S 500 DOLLAR TAX REBATE TO CITIZENS?

>> NO.

IT'S GOING TO RISE INFLATION.

>> YES.

>> NO.

>> SHE'S TRYING TO BUY VOTES.

IT'S DISINGENUOUS.

NO.

>> ALL RIGHT.

REVEREND, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

>> YES.

>> YES.

>> YES.

>> YEP.

>> MR. KELLEY, WOULD YOU CLOSE THE EXECUTIVE RESIDENCE ON MACKINAW ISLAND?

>> NO.

>> NO.

>> I WOULD RUN RENT IT OUT AND MAKE THE STATE MONEY.

>> I WOULD NOT CLOSE IT, NO.

>> WHO IS NEXT?

WHERE AM I?

MR. KEVIN RINKE.

I'M SORRY.

PART TIME LEGISLATURE?

>> I WOULD CONSIDER IT.

>> COME ON.

LET ME PRESS YOU ON IT.

EVERYBODY CONSIDERS STUFF.

>> AGAIN, I WOULD CONSIDER IT.

I THINK THIS.

THAT THE COST OF GOVERNMENT -- >> NOPE.

IT'S GOT TO BE YES OR NO.

CONSIDER IS YOUR ANSWER, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> YES.

>> YES.

>> AND LET'S SEE.

HAVE YOU EVER VOTED FOR A DEMOCRAT?

>> YES.

>> CAN YOU TELL ME WHO?

>> NO.

IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YES.

>> CUE TELL ME WHO?

>> NO.

>> NO.

I EVER -- I EVER NOT.

>> NO.

>> YOU WON'T TELL ME?

>> I'M TRYING TO THINK IF HE WAS OR NOT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

INDEPENDENT.

I VOTED INDEPENDENT, THIRD PARTY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR J.F.K.

>> WE'RE -- NEXT.

VERY QUICKLY.

SELLING OF ALCOHOL AT UNIVERSITIES, AT SPORTING EVENTS.

>> YES OR NO?

>> YOU CAN EXPAND ON THIS ONE.

>> I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

>> I'M NOT HEARING YOU.

>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.

>> FOR SURE.

>> WHETHER SHE BOUGHT IT OR SNUCK IT IN.

> DID YOU BUY IT ON PREMISE OR -- AGAINST IT.

>> WHAT'S WRONG WITH DRINKING AT A FOOTBALL GAME?

>> THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH DRINKING AT A FOOTBALL GAME.

ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS?

YOU CAN'T HAVE FIREARMS, YOU HAVE REGULATIONS.

I'M ONE THAT DOESN'T USE ALCOHOL AT ALL.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD DRINK.

I THINK IT MAKES YOU SLOPPY, YOU KNOW, ASK DANA HOW DOES THAT DO FOR YOUR DECISION MAKING PROCESS.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH CANNABIS AS WELL ON THE MEDICAL SIDE BUT I DON'T USE IT AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE SHOULD RECREATIONALLY.

PRO FOOTBALL GAMES BUT COLLEGE CAMPUSES, NO.

I DON'T THINK SO.

>> COLLEGE CAMPUSES, I THINK IT'S FINE.

KIDS ARE DRINKING ANYWAYS.

>> BIG THING WITH THE FOOTBALL GAMES, TOO, IS MIGHT COUNTY BACK ON THE BINGE DRINKING THAT HAPPENS AT THE TAILGATE.

IF YOU ALLOW THEM INSIDE, THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET LIKE THAT OUT OF CONTROL DURING THE TAILGATING.

THEY MAY DRINK A LITTLE MORE RESPONSIBLY AND I GOING TO MAKE THE CAMPUSES OR THE UNIVERSITIES MORE MONEY.

>> AND WHEN WE MAKE THEM MORE MONEY, WE CAN CUT THROUGH STATE FUNDING MORE.

>> VERY GOOD.

CANDIDATES, WE'RE GOING TO PAUSE NOW.

CLOSE CREDITS.

ARE YOU ALL STILL AWAKE?

>> YEP.

>> I'M GOOD.

I'M FIRED UP.

>> LET'S GO TO CLOSED CREDITS AND THEN GO TO WKAR.ORG FOR THE CONTINUATION OF OUR CONVERSATION WITH THE CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR OF OUR STATE.

>> FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD, VISIT K WKAR.ORG.