>> welcome back.

Our guest this week is the Senate Democratic leader.

Our lead story the state is pouring billions into updating the state sagging infrastructure.

on the panel we have Jonathan Emily and Zachary.

Sitting with us as we get the inside out off the record.

>> production is made possible in part by Martin Wehmeier a full-service strategic communications agency partnering with clients or public relations, digital marketing, and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martin Whitmire .com.

>> thank you and welcome to week two in the studio.

How does it feel?

>> fantastic pair >> a wonderful.

>> it beats Zoom.

Speaking of, the Michigan legislature ended up spending a bunch of your money let's see where it's going.

The Michigan legislature has agreed to pump $4.8 billion to repairing the states of World War II sagging infrastructure.

In the industry to do the work is more than happy to gobble up the box appear >> it will enthuse a lot of money into our infrastructure in Michigan and the contractors are happy.

>> and the state will spend the $317 million on the road and bridge repairs, 450 million to spruce up the park and trail systems, 250 million to expand broadband in remote areas of the state, and from motorists trying to navigate flooded freeways another 66 million to be for pumping stations plus, to avoid another Flint invented Harbor lead water crisis $1.7 billion for leadpipe removals.

>> there's a lot of money for lead service line replacements.

I hope communities are advanced enough to look into that issue and spend the money to replace their lead lines before you get into a situation like Flint and Benton Harbor.

>> it's one thing to allocate the money and and another to find the bodies to do the work the industry says bring it.

>> the industry has been a tremendous job of hiring over the pass several years you have a lot of companies that are willing to come back to Michigan and bring their crews back to Michigan.

>> in this election year the governor and the two legislative leaders set aside political differences with the moment iron out this package which would break all records for state spending on infrastructure needs.

>> Emily, this was an early Christmas for the legislature in this election year right?

>> absolutely and it has all the hallmarks of an effective good compromise.

Everyone got a little bit of something that they can bring back to their district and Witmer got a little bit more for roads but could help her bolster the impression that she is done things for roads in her four years for office her signature campaign promise of course, any your people in home things like help poor sewage, septic, all the underground stuff we don't think about.

>> broadband.

>> you have people like Jim who can bring home damn assistance for places like Midland, really it does look like a lot of winning.

>> yes.

This is a I mean the biggest deal here I think is the water infrastructure funding.

It is not just Levitt -- leadpipe replacement as we spoke about but stormwater systems as you said in the intro, we have World War II era stormwater systems.

That really are a problem in many communities across the state and this will make a big difference and it so that is something as Emily said that lawmakers in every part of the state can tout that.

Witmer can tout it is part of the campaign pledge to focus on clean water and Kumbaya moment.

We haven't had a lot of those lately.

>> how long have we been talking about the desperate state of the water and infrastructure underground?

The combined sewage overflows with the storm water goes into the same pipe as a sewage and empties into rivers when there's heavy rain?

It has to be 20 to 25 years and the problem was always the number was so staggering to make a dent know one knew what to do and then all of a sudden there was an incredible Federal adjustment that materialized and relayed to everyone's credit they all seem to say this is the moment we can actually do something and what is it?

Twelve to 3 billion going into water and sewer?

It won't fix everything but it will make a huge difference.

>> that is an important note.

This is a one time and money for road and water infrastructure and the governor had his commissions that look at these issues and he said billions per year.

>> 3.2 billion per year.

>> a huge chunk of change and no doubt but it won't solve all of the state's problems appear >> what makes it such a big win and I think is this is all of the unsexy as parts of infrastructure.

You look at something like roads of course it is a campaign slogan everyone sees that but no one sees the wastewater system degrading.

No one sees that they have pipes that are pushing 100 years old in that need fixing but really, this is a one time into something that wasn't going to be politically popular to raise taxes it was a one time influx of Federal funding it's a big help in that regard.

>> Tom was really a reluctant participant but they dangled a new road project in front of him that brought him on board.

That's how this game is there was a games as you saw there was infrastructure priority grants which is a fancy way of saying the legislature will decide what roads get fixed not letter MDOT which is what usually happens and so that is all part of assembling the vote and this went through overwhelmingly only a smattering of a no vote but another big backlog is to State park at a local park infrastructure.

This is another one where Michigan, we talk about treasure the outdoors, towards him a huge asset, for a lot of time a lot of the state part infrastructure has been degrading and was helped a few years ago for that put new revenue into the system but you don't fix 30 to 40 years of backlog maintenance overnight.

It's another 250 million for the state and another for parks and trails but this is a chance for the state to really double down in one of its big assets.

>> and let's not forget what help increased the skids here.

I don't know what it is but it's important to farmers and a lot of them wanted help but there is a big money to help fund this in Michigan.

>> if there was a problem now the citizenry has now been raised that this will be done tomorrow it's not quite how it works contracts have to be let.

And it has to be out there but it's a huge down payment.

>> we got over this hump because it's a good thing there is a bit of a giant influx of cash over all the prices that we pay could go up a bit.

We talk about.

There were lead lines that have increased but I think there is enough wiggle room with some of these investments that the fact that they can happen over a period of time would be a good thing financial aid.

>> the question is, Mo, from this agreement transferring it to the budget which is still pending as they go on.

>> I think they can.

I think they can.

It seems like this group that they have right now with the new budget director previous budget director did a fine job as well but they have Chris Harkins who knows the terrain from the legislature as the governor's budget director and Representative Albert they had a few bumps last year.

This year as well.

>> they found a way to come to agreement on some of these things.

You didn't see some of the games like one side sends over a bunch of stuff that love is it knows the other side is hates.

That didn't really happen this time.

But I think they can of course at the tax piece is the most difficult to work through because everyone has their own ideas this supplemental budget and last year's budget when you have this much money to go around don't believe the old song that sometimes the surplus is as difficult as the deficit.

Nope you have enough money for everybody to get something here and I think they need to know to get out and campaign.

There are incumbents as districts have been torn up by redistricting there's not a secure is they used to be obviously the governor will go out to run for reelection no one wants to be trapped in Lansing to the Summer with a very big primary in August.

>> speaking of down payments, this is a down payment of goodwill frankly.

We saw everyone get a press release on this the governor's office in you know some saying here is my budget proposal ideas for my budget/what is actualized in the supplemental and so everyone got depressed out of this.

>> the government was taking as victory lap this week on this agreement with the Republicans of the legislature.

There was polling data that came out that if you are sitting in the executive office and you looked at it the question was the people said if the election was held today would you go for Gretchen Witmer or someone else and guess who won?

Somebody else with 59 percent the governor had 34 percent.

Make those numbers what you will if anything.

>> I mean it's not something you want to hear obviously if you are the governor's campaign.

>> I called it out.

>> yes something else pulls I don't think it tell us a lot but you know when the governor -- other polling has happened head head-to-head against some of these top Republican nominees and she fared better so when you put her up against a real candidate the numbers will change but we were talking before that the approval numbers are actually poll 51 to 41 percent and so above much better than that President Joe Biden so she is doing better than the Democratic -- the vague Democratic figure that you might put up against her.

>> I don't think it is an out moment for the reasons Jonathan said that mythical someone else always outperforms an incumbent in polls I think we spoke about this yesterday as like the backup quarterback, the unseen is always better than what's out there on the that being said, the regions for the governor to be concerned about real action are they regardless of one pole or another she has a president of her party in the White house who is pretty and and popular and has not been able to seem to turn it around and you can see all the moves she's been making really for the last 14 months have been tacking back toward the center even a little right of center and there is a governor who is campaigning on tax cuts at this point which is not the typical Democratic posture and she is trying to do a lot of things to move away from some of the messaging that she had the first three years of her administration so there are still reasons for concern but I don't think this poll is one of them.

>> I'm going to try to justify this and change your mind it.

It is an ouch moment because this is a fair question to ask but politically it is exploitable.

The Republicans will take this and try to confuse the electorate they will not make the point that running against another person is different than not a person.

And so I do think this -- look, is it damaging?

Does it destroy the campaign?

It does not but it's one horrible at the Republicans will take in fire at her and she will have to defend it so far the executive office has been crickets on this poll.

>> I've already seen the press release from the Republicans that you're talking about.

>> they could hardly wait.

>> obviously I think any number you can point to to say the incumbent is a week will be an advantage for Republicans but Republicans are struggling -- the factors that are not an easy head-to-head to do in a poll right now, the fact that they feel it so broadly, and so scattered frankly across the card.

There's no front runner that I see at this moment but it should be a way bigger concern to them than the 59 percent number.

>> theoretically the polling number help Republican candidates say I have a chance here.

Fund to come give me donations, but as Emily mentioned, there is no real clear front runner in this about the donor class rattling around them at this point it was James Craig early but that seemed to have slowed down significantly.

We have some funding that we don't seem to need.

The impact of Apple will be limited.

The GOP has plenty of ammunition are talking points to go after the governor beyond that pole.

>> let's make it unanimous, and we believe that Mr. Cragg is no longer the front runner?

>> I agree he is not the front runner.

I agree with Emily, there is no front runner right now.

>> is an amazing or not?

We're sitting here.

>> it is surprising.

>> because look, James Greg got into the race with a lot of fanfare last Summer and a lot of institutional Republicans were singing his praises one of them was Mike who endorsed tutor Dixon which I think was telling of crag is disappointed so far as Jonathan said as of the end of the last year he was developing a pretty serious financial problem he will have to demonstrate that he can keep its campaign afloat financially and the rest of them are just a bunch of unknowns who either have no money or are hoping their self funding will convince people to like them.

>> and the Democrats could not be happier.

>> absolutely.

I think we have a lot of moment to witness in the rubble can field frankly I think there are a bucket of Republican candidates were competing for the Trump endorsement and if they don't get it we could see them fade away.

>> James Craig is still the candidate the Democrats are most afraid of but, will he win the nomination?

That remains to be seen.

>> let's call it I guess the Senate Democratic leader.

Senator, welcome to this program is good to see you via Zoom.

Are you doing okay?

>> I am great.

You popular legislation this week to pause the sales tax at the sales tax to but the Speaker of the house is against this so this is dead right sometimes it takes the house longer to come to where this starts so there is still time to convince them that instead of having to back the roads you don't have to back them anything we can give a relief to people and I think I can still convince them.

I hope I can and if not, then let's keep trying to find common ground on something else.

>> the speaker called you this weekend and said Mr. Leader, if you will roll back our income tax rate I will give you your sales tax cut and you do what?

>> I would say, >> why are you laughing?

Why are you laughing?

>> if we cut taxes too much we could lose in Federal resources, and I would be happy to trade it for the pension tax if that is what he wanted to do.

>> but not income tax?

>> nope I just don't think that is what is the most prudent thing.

I don't think people are asking for it.

I would prefer to see us do some real significant relief at the pump because that is where inflation is hitting people the hardest and you know, if they're not willing to do that that's fine I talk to people every day I know where people are struggling and if they haven't figured it out yet I will give them time to come to this conclusion I've come was already.

>> Senator, why are you more comfortable look for going a sales tax revenue which of course benefits largely K-12 public schools as opposed to suspending the fuel tax which is solely for roads.

In the pass with the idea of lifting the sales tax off of gasoline has come up the big cry has come from public schools and local governments who benefit from this but you're taking away a huge part of our revenue.

>> I was a teacher before I came.

My proposal wouldn't cut schools but I like my proposal better because the gas tax one is dedicated to fix roads.

Our bonding could be in jeopardy but also you have to back that because everyone acknowledges that the roads are falling apart even the governor has made huge strides to improve them there still a long way to go.

Because we did this budget in October gas was at $2.80 and it's been over $3.50 for months and it's been over $4 for quite some time now and because of that, because of the large amount gas in -- is they have received they were budgeted for and then some.

And so mine would need to do that.

But they are shipped to come up at $750 million for roads and I would rather use that money for something else.

>> you are flint because you are from Flint you look bit interested in this underground water structure for a long time.

In your mind what's the biggest win from the piece of legislation you passed recently and then supplemental?

>> you covered a lot of it and I could not agree more.

I think the underground investment in water and sewer is critical.

It's a great start toward the amount of work that we need to do long term to make these improvements.

Having lived the Flint water crisis in one of the highest in ZIP Codes for concentration of lead I am more than most people knowing what it's like to be afraid for your family and dealing with the Benton Harbor and this will be something that happens all across the state because we are an older state with as mentioned mentioned, World War II sort of the time frame for a lot of the pipes being put we will have this issue across the state and if we could make major investments while move -- removing the dangerous pipes from the ground I think that's a great point but I also like the parks and the number of other things in there as well at it in the road investments will be helpful.

>> obviously a lot of folks want to get the budget done by Summer break but at the same time, the tax issue seems to be a real sticking point still.

Could just last week we had a Kumbaya moment just last week Republicans were accusing war on family.

But you introduced your sales tax on gas legislation this week but give us an inside look, where are the talks?

Where is there actually room for compromise?

And how close is it actually happening?

>> I do not think we are that close yet and I have not been able to determine if sending tax cuts the governor won't sign is a campaign tactic or something they really want to get to a compromise on I think we have billions of dollars in surplus, you know you can look at it as our money or you can say we took too much in for families and we could give it back.

There's a number of ways to do it.

The sales tax pause is a great way to do it as that would direct checks to than giving .2 to 3 percent points -- .2 to 3 percent cut to income that most families wouldn't even see or receive $75 per year if you give direct checks now that we have inflation.

That's a much more impactful way to do it so there are ways to get a compromise or not there is an actual political decision being made or if it is about families.

If it's about helping families and willing to join but if it's about politics then it's just politics.

I'd rather help families but it's politics I couldn't do that as well.

>> and issue the legislator wanted to take up for spring or Summer break was was ethics.

Of course the house is already pass a full budget ethics reforms bills, they have introduced more house Democrats are calling for investigation into Lee Chatfield, where our Senate Democrats?

Why are you guys doing the stuff?

>> we have been consistently talking about this over the term and it's something I believe is important.

Code on the show actually pushed across the table my tax return at one time.

And willing to lead with my -- on these issues.

I think personal finance exposure is critical.

People have a right to know if her voting on things I think ethics is long overdue.

I that Senator Broome and Erwin are putting in creating a bicameral evenly based ethical committee.

I would love to see that.

We could do that now.

It's really the Republican leadership that's holding it up and I'm willing to do at any point in time.

I spoke about this so much over the last -- that's probably the old guy being around almost ten years, I've been calling for this and cosponsoring it for ten years.

I'm not banging the drum because I think the public has to start bringing the drum or it will never get done.

>> how >> to argue about taking back control of the Michigan Senate do to redistricting?

>> it's a great chance.

The maps are the first chance with had in 40 years that are not gerrymandered and I think it will be our year of the national environment isn't too bad I think it's ours to lose and I plan to do whatever we can to make sure we win.

To give me your number?

How many seats?

>> we have 19 seats in the base numbers.

We have 23 top-notch candidates.

I will dance around this as long as you let me.

I will be the best I can.

I have a real serious path to get the majority.

Think in your biggest fear is that Joe Biden will cause you trouble the Senate.

>> his numbers are improving the war I think the policies will start -- Democratic policy sometimes take longer to serve the public.

Use with they leave every time Republican presidency when they leave they leave us with the best to take us a while to fix it and hopefully some of that stuff will come together by the Summer and we will be in good shape.

But the governor I think we'll be the top.

She will lead us with her coat tails and I think that we will have a decent November.

>> what percentage do you think you need from Governor Witmer to give your candidates a chance to get to the 20 seat minimum needed for majority?

>> I think we can get to 19 if she just wins the 452 to 53 range for sure because a better match ups.

With her candidates and mean it you look at our top 23 candidates and we have all starts from top the bottom.

This is the first time I didn't have to pull rod to everything I could and blow peoples want to get them to run for Senate.

Everyone wants to run and they want to be in our team and I don't blame them they want it to be a good year.

>> do you think the redistricting and the possibility of actual majority shook some people lose?

>> I do think that is a good part of it.

When you draw maps fairly Democrats get more votes from the state legislature.

We just do.

They just had the maps drawn so poorly or so in their figure for so long that want to see that they can win and they should win the senator said after the mask came out the commission I think I will try to quote them basically said commission clearly drew a democratic gerrymandered.

I don't think by any stretch of any definition that is if you draw maps that are slightly more favorable to Democrats because that where people vote than you could tell they are afraid because they have only ran in really safe districts where they had a majority before the election started to.

Now they have to go out and talk to people and a lot of these values don't line up to people are at.

>> were getting to an overtime segment before that, you are a lame duck right now and do you want to be part of the Witmer administration if she gets reelected?

>> if not I hope I can get a good word it with tutor Dixon.

>> was that an answer?

I missed it if it was in there.

>> I haven't decided.

281 days, I could take a break and relax and just watch this show without having to worry about what I may say or do that gets me in trouble with my press secretary.

>> okay or not off the hook yet so stay tuned for overtime.

We will be our website for more over time with the Senator.

>> production of off the record is made possible by Martin Wehmeier of full-service strategic communications agency partnering with clients to public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at Martin whenMeyer .com.

>> for more off the visit w K A R .org.

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