THANKS FOR TUNING IN.

THIS WEEK'S A CORRESPONDENCE EDITION FOR SPRING BREAK HAVE THEY DONE FOR YOU AND TO YOU IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

WE'LL HAVE PANELISTS INCLUDING DAVE BUTCHER AND BILLING BALANCER AS WE -- BAILIFF BOUCHER, EMILY LAWLER, RACHEL LOUISE JUST AND BILL BALLING -- YOU BALLENGER.

BROUGHT TO YOU BY WAR >>> WELCOME TO STUDIO C ON THIS RAINY, RAINY SPRING DAY IN EAST LANSING.

DANA NESTLELE GETS THE LEAD STORY THIS WEEK, THE CHECK FOR THE TOP NEWS STORY, SAID BASCALLY THAT THE SINCOME TAX THAT REPUBLICANS WANT TO ROLL BACK WILL LAST ONE YEAR.

>> WHAT'S THE REACTION?

>> WELL, SOMETHING THEY'VE BEEN PROBABLY ANTICIPATING, AS SOON AS WE SAW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, WE SAW PRESS CONFERENCES STARTING TO HELD SAYING MAKE SURE IT GOES THROUGH, MAKE SURE IT GOES THROUGH PERMANENTLY, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS.

SO IT'S NOT ELITE TO SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT VERY HAPPY ABOUT THIS BUT CERTAINLY BE USING IT AS A POLITICAL TOOL TO WIELD.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISE IF THEY ACTUALLY END UP TAKING THIS TO COURT AT SOME POINT.

>> YOU THINK?

COME ON, WE CAN PUT MONEY ON THAT.

>> THIS IS JUST EXPERIENCE OF MY TOWN TALKING.

BUT THEY CAME OUT PRETTY FORCEFULLY RIGHT AFTER NESTLE'S DECISION SAYING IT ONLY WENT FOR A YEAR AND BASICALLY CAME OUT WITH THE LEADERSHIP AT THE TIME SAYING NO THAT WASN'T LEGISLATIVE'S INTENT.

HERE'S WHAT WE THOUGHT THIS LEGISLATION DID, THIS IS WHAT WE MEANT WHEN WE PASSED IT.

I THINK THEY COULD MAKE A STRONG CASE BASED ON LEGISLATIVE INTENT THAT THE INCOME ROLLBACK IS SUPPOSED TO BE A LITTLE MORE LONG LASTING.

>> WELL, THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND FORMER SPEAK, THEY SAY, HEY, THESE GUYS ALL CONFIRMED, THIS IS WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GOING ON.

WILL THAT HOLD ANY SENATOR.

>> LET'S PUT THIS WAY, TO PARAPHRASE, WHO ARE YOU GONNA BELIEVE, THEIR OPINION OR LION EYES.

I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, THE REPUBLICANS, AND PARTICULARLY RICK SNYDER, SAY THIS IS -- PARTICULARLY -- THIS IS AN OUTRAGE AND NESTLE SAYS WHATEVER YOU INTENDED TO DO YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT THAT WAY AND IT'S ONLY GOOD FOR A YEAR.

SO IF THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A PLAINTIFF, I THINK RICK SNYDER IS THE IDEAL ONE, I THINK HE SHOULD FILE A LAWSUIT, WILL THE FORMER GOVERNOR -- AGAINST THE STATE.

>> THE ATTORNEY CURRENT'S OPINIONS ARE OF COURSE INTERESTING AND OF COURSE IMPORTANT.

THEY'RE NOT LIKE BINDING LAW, SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING -- >> UNTIL A COURT OVERTURNS THEM, IT IS THE LAW.

>> EXACTLY.

AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

BUT AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT HERE, THIS IS GONNA GO TO COURT, RIGHT.

IT'S ALMOST GUARANTEED THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL GO TO COURT.

OBVIOUSLY IT FEELS LIKE SOMETHING WE'VE HEARD WHEN PEOPLE WERE ASKING THE LEGISLATURE WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THEY'RE SAYING WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL OPTIONS.

THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT WAS PART OF THAT CONVERSATION, RIGHT.

ACTUALLY GETTING THAT INFORMATION AND OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNOR WANTED, RIGHT.

THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS NOT NECESSARILY WANTING THIS TO BE PERMANENT ROLLBACK, AGAIN AT THE SAME TIME, IT'LL BE DECIDED IN COURT DOWN THE LINE.

>> IT'S CONCERN OF A BACKUP PLAN.

THE SECOND LEAST BAD SCENARIO FOR WHITMER WHO DIDN'T WANT THAT TAX TO ROLL BACK.

SHE TRIED THE $180 MECHANISM, IT DIDN'T WORK.

AND THE NEXT BEST THING IS SAYING THIS IS A TEMPORARY ONE-YEAR INCREMENTAL CHANGE.

>> I THOUGHT THE HOO PSA AWARD THAT WAS ANNOUNCED IN A CONFERENCE, PEOPLE ARE GETTING A TAX CUT.

RETIRE ADMINISTRATION DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO KILL THIS THING.

>> WELL, THEY'RE COUNTING REBATE THE SAME THING AS A TAX CUT AND ONE WAY OR THE OTHER THEY SAY PEOPLE ARE GETTING TAX RELIEF.

NO THANKS TO THEM, BUT THEY'RE JUST EXPECTING EVERYBODY NOT NOTICE THAT.

>> IT'S JUST GOOD POLITICS FOR SOMEONE TO TAKE CREDIT FOR SOMETHING EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T WANT IT, RIGHT.

>> YEAH, AND THINK OF THIS, IF THERE'S A LAWSUIT FILED, IT WILL BE APPEALED, FOR SURE.

>> STATE SUPREME COURT.

>> IT IS.

BUT GUESS WHO'S ON IT?

BETH CLEMENT WHO WAS SNYDER'S LEGAL COUNSEL.

IS SHE GONNA HAVE TO RECUSE.

>>> WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN ON THAT?

>> THE SAVINGS HERE ARE NOT MONUMENTAL.

>> YEAH, I THINK, WHAT IS IT -- >> $100 FOR A FAMILY MAKING $50,000.

>> RIGHT.

BUT IT'S A PRINCIPLE THING, SOMETHING THAT REPUBLICANS TALKED ABOUT AND FRANKLY THEY CAN'T PAIN ON THIS IRRELEVANT LEADING UP TO THE MIDTERMS.

WE HEADER REPUBLICANS TALK ABOUT -- THEY SENT MULTIPLE BILLS TO THE GOVERNOR THAT AT LEAST REDUCED THE INCOME TAX TO SOME DEGREE.

GOVERNOR EITHER VETOED THOSE OR DIDN'T SIGN THOSE.

SO THIS HAS BEEN A CAMPAIGN PROMISE FOR REPUBLICANS FOR A LONG TIME.

AT SAME TIME, IN THEORY, THE DEMOCRATS HAVE THE MAJORITY TO POTENTIALLY CHANGE THE INCOME TAX.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF US COULD IMAGINE POTENTIALLY WORSE POLITICS THAN RAISING INCOME TAX AFTER IT HAD JUST GONE DOWN BUT IN THEORY THAT'S OBVIOUSLY ALSO ON THE LIST OF OPTIONS.

>> WE'LL SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT BUT I THINK YOU'RE ALL RIGHT, THE COURTS WILL HAVE A FINAL WORD BUT AN INTERESTING STORY FROM MS. NESTLE.

BILLY, WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT THEY HAVE DONE SINCE JANUARY?

>> FROM A NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE, I'D SAY REPEAL RIGHT TO WORK BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A HUGE STORY 10 YEARS AGO, AND IT STILL PLAYS NATIONALLY.

I THINK PERSONALLY THE BIGGEST THING IS WHAT WE JUST GOT THROUGH TALKING ABOUT.

IT'S A ROLLING STORY ON TAX RELIEF AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A ONE-YEAR, WHETHER IT'S PERMANENT, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO TRY TO TAKE THIS TO THE BANK NEXT YEAR, I THINK THAT IS OVERALL THE MOST IMPORTANT STORY GOING FORWARD, BUT I THINK TO MOST OF THE COUNTRY AND EVEN THE STATE, IT'S NOT AS BIG AS A REPEAL OF RIGHT TO WORK.

>> RACHEL, I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY BIG.

I MEAN, THE TRACTION THAT ALL THAT COVERAGE GOT I THINK SHOWS HOW MUCH THE COUNTRY DOES CARE ABOUT IT AND HONE IN ON IT, BUT IT IS ALSO HARD TO DECIDE BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE THINGS BEEN THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR FOUR DECADES.

THEY ARE STILL VERY SIGNIFICANT.

THE ALCRA AMENDMENT TO INCLUDE PROTECTION FORCE LGBTQ PEOPLE, THAT'S MASSIVE.

ALSO THE GUNS THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE SIGNED INTO LAW, THAT THOSE GUNS CONTROL PIECES.

I THINK THOSE ARE REALLY GONNA BE A LASTING LEGACY OF THIS LEGISLATURE.

SO DEFINITELY NOT TO BE FORGOT INN THIS CASE.

>> I THINK ALCRA AND RIGHT TO WORK ARE BOTH HELPING MICHIGAN CHART ITS OWN COURSE NATIONALLY.

THEY BOTH BUCK NATIONAL TRENDS WITH THE FIRST STATE REPEAL RIGHT TO WORK IN 60 YEARS.

OBVIOUSLY WE WERE PART OF A TREND TO PASS IT AND PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT MICHIGAN WONDERING THERE WILL BE A TREND TO UNROLL IT NOW.

AND I THINK WITH ALCRA, CERTAINLY WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF STATES CRACK DOWN ON THESE TRANSITIONS OR MOVE TOWARD MORE CONSERVATIVE VIEWPOINTS ON THESE THINGS AND WE JUST PUT A PRETTY LOUD STATEMENT IN OUR CIVIL RIGHTS ACT THAT WE WANT TO PROTECT LGBT PEOPLE AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT MICHIGAN AS BUCKING A NATIONAL END THERE TOO.

>> THIS IS PROBABLY LESS FLASHY, BUT PEOPLE DON'T LIKING WHEN POLITICIANS JUST FIGHT ALL THE TIME.

YOU HEAR THAT FROM VOTERS ALL THE TIME, AND FOR YEARS PEOPLE HAVE AGREED TO EXPAND THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT, THE CREDIT FOR PEOPLE WHO MAKE LESS MONEY, THE FROM THE 6% THAT IT WAS AT TO 30% OF THE FEDERAL CREDIT.

>> HUGE.

>> THIS IS REAL MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DESPERATELY NEED AND LAWMAKERS FROM BOTH PARTIES HAVE AGREED ON THIS IDEA FOR YEARS, BUT IT'S BEEN THIS BARGAINING CHIP THAT HAS BEEN THROWN IN EITHER WITH AN INCOME TAX ROLLBACK OR SOMETHING ELSE.

THE FACT THAT IT'S FINALLY BEING PASSED, WE SAW THE FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WORKING ON IT AND THE FACT THAT IT EVER GOT DONE IS POLITICS.

BUT THE FACT THAT IT'S DONE IT'S A MASSIVE THING FOR FAMILIES THAT REALLY NEED THIS MONEY.

GO TO THE COMPLETE FLIP SIDE THE MONEY BEING ALLOCATED FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS STUNNING.

IT'S BILLIONS WITH A B AMOUNT OF MONEY, RIGHT.

AND IF WE'RE LOOKING -- I THINK IF YOU ASK POLITICS POTENTIALLY IF RIGHT TO WORK OR THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT THEY'RE INVESTING WILL HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT ON THE MICHIGAN BUSINESS ECONOMY YOU'LL HEAR AN ANSWER FOR EVERYBODY, CERTAINLY THE GOVERNOR WOULD ARGUE THERE'S BILLIONS OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GOING INTO THESE MASSIVE PLANS.

>> CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME, WHY HAVE ALL OF A SUDDEN REPUBLICANS HAVE GOTTEN RELIGION THAT GIVING MONEY TO BUSINESS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

HOONTS IT BEEN A PART OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE MANTRA FOR YEARS THIS TOWN.

DID I MISS SOMETHING?

>> MY COLLEAGUE HAD A GREAT STORY ON THIS AND IT USED TO BE A SUPER BIPARTISAN ISSUE, GIVING MONEY TO PEOPLE AND MAKING THE BIG PRESS CONFERENCES HOW MANY JOBS YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE.

>> AND CUTTING THE RIBBON ON TV.

>> YES, VERY POPULAR ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

BUT I THINK THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SORT OF HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE WITH THE AMOUNT AND THE PROCESS.

IT HAS BEEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THE FIRST THREE MONTHS.

IT'S A SPEND RATE THAT'S PRETTY ASTRONOMICAL WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT AND ALSO HYPERCONCENTRATED IN A SINGLE INDUSTRY WHERE GIVING MOST OF THIS MONEY TOWARD ELECTRICAL VEHICLE MANUFACTURING CAPABILITY.

WE'VE CERTAINLY HEARD FROM SOME REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT AND FRANKLY PEOPLE ARE NOT CONVINCED THAT WE'RE SPENDING MONEY TO CREATE THE BEST KIND OF JOBS WE CAN CREATE.

DAVE DOES SOME OF THE BEST WORK IN THE STATE ON CUTTING THESE SALARIED JOBS THAT ARE HIGHER PAYING AND REPLACING THEM ESSENTIALLY AND INCIDENT INCENTIVIZING THEM TO BE REPLACED.

>> THERE'S A BIG LINK BETWEEN BIG BUSINESS AND BIG GOVERNMENT.

AND IT'S MORE PRONOUNCED AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND HERE IN MICHIGAN.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE THE PARTY OF SMALL BUSINESS.

AND BRIAN CALLIE, FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, EXHIBIT A.

SO REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, AS THE DEPOSITION USED TO SAY, GIVING GOVERNMENT FREEBIES AND SUBSIDIES TO HUGE GIANT CORPORATIONS, WELL, THE WEST OF THE SHLUBS IN THE STATE ARE BATTLING HIGH INFLATION, IS A BAD IDEA AND SO THERE'S A REAL SHIFT, I THINK, IN THE WAY THE PARTIES RELATE TO BUSINESS COMPARED TO 10, 20 YEARS AGO.

>> HOW ABOUT GENERAL MOTORS.

>> YOU CAN'T BE AGAINST IT, BUT -- >> IF YOU'RE NOT FOR IT, WHAT ARE NEW.

>> YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY BE AGAINST IT, RIGHT.

I THINK REPUBLICANS WHO WEREN'T IN FAVOR OF BAIL-OUTS FOR THE AUTO COMPANIES YEARS AGO, RIGHT?

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS AN ALBA TROZ FOR REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORTED THAT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE ALL KNOW THE MARGINS ARE RAZOR THIN IN THE SENATE AND HOUSE AND A COUPLE OF HOUSE DEMOCRATS, ONE PARTICULAR, A FRESHMAN, WHO IS ARDENTLY AGAINST THESE DEALS, SO IF THE REPUBLICANS CAN GET TOGETHER AND GET THIS ONE DEMOCRAT TO COME WITH THEM, THEY CAN POTENTIALLY BLOCK THESE MARQUE DEMOCRATIC WHITMER PRIORITIES.

THEY CAN'T DO IT ON GUNS OR ELKRA OR ABORTION, BUT THEY CAN DO IT ON THIS, WHICH THE GOVERNOR HAS ALLOCATED IS A KEY PRIORITY.

SO TO YOUR POINT, BEFORE THE START OF THE SESSION, WE HEADER THE REPUBLICANS TALK ALL THE TIME ABOUT GIVING AWAY MONEY FOR THIS SORT OF THING, RIGHT BUT COULD BE A WAY FOR THEM TO GET POLITICAL WINS WHERE THEY CAN'T GET IT WHERE ELSE.

>> CAN YOU ARGUE AGAINST THE CREATION OF JOBS EVEN THOUGH THE PAYMENT IS $460 FOR ONE JOB, WHATEVER.

EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.

>> I THINK YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST YEAR.

WE HEADER THE GOVERNOR AND EXECUTIVE FORD THAT ANNOUNCED THESE MASSIVE EXPANSIONS THAT INCLUDED A $100 MILLION-DOLLAR INCENTIVE FROM THE STATE AND FOUND OUT LATER THAT THE COMPANY WAS CREATING ROUGHLY 3,000 BLUE COLLAR JOBS AND LAYING OFF THOUSANDS OF WHITE COLLAR JOBS, RIGHT.

WE'VE SEEN IN THE MARSHAL PLANT, THE MASSIVE NEW PLANT THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THAT THE JOBS ARE PAYING IN THE $40,000, $50,000 CHANGE, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S REAL MONEY AND SOMETHING SUPREME BEEN ABLE TO LIVE ON.

BUT THIS IS UNCLEAR WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE WILL BE MOVING ACROSS THE COUNTRY OR MOVING INTO MICHIGAN FOR A $45,000.

THEY MIGHT BUT I THINK THE COST BENEFIT RATIO THERE IS DEFINITELY STILL DEBATETIVE.

>> ALSO THE REPUBLICANS ISSUE CHINA.

HERE WE GO AGAIN.

RIGHT, WHAT'S THEIR BEEF THERE?

>> THEY'RE COMMUNIST OVER THERE, TIM.

>> THIS IS WHAT THE CREEPING IS LIKE,ZINE PHOBIA.

AND IT'S CHINA NOW.

I THINK IT'S HAPPENING NATIONALLY.

WE SEE THIS WHEREVER IN THE CONVERSATION PARTICULARLY FROM THE RIGHT WING, THE REPUBLICANS, THE CONSERVATIVES, FEAR OF CHINA, FIGHTBACK AGAINST CHINA.

ANY CONNECTION THERE IS BAD.

>> CHOOSE TO STILL RESINATE WITH FOLK AT HOME?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE AUTO COMPANIES MIGHT THINK IT DOES BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN PRETTY CAREFUL TO LIMB THE CONNECTIONS AND EXPLAIN THEM PRETTY CAREFULLY AND SAY THIS ISN'T A PARTNERSHIP, THIS IS SORT OF A LIMITED CAPACITY THAT THEY'LL BE CONTRIBUTING IN, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY WHEN YOU ASK IF PEOPLE CAN BE AGAINST JOBS, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT VISIONS OF WHERE MICHIGAN'S ECONOMY SHOULD GO AND I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LOOK AT THE $45,000 A YEAR MANUFACTURING SECTOR JOBS AND SAY WHAT IF WE SHOULD BE MOVING MORE TOWARDS INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY KIND OF ECONOMY, AND WE REALLY HAVEN'T MADE VESSELS IN THAT DIRECTION.

WE'VE BEEN HYPERFOCUSED ON THIS PARTICULAR BARREL OF EV MANUFACTURING AND I THINK THAT LAWMAKERS ARE PROBABLY DOING THEIR JOB TO QUESTION WHAT MAKES SENSE IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE.

>> THE REPUBLICANS ALWAYS WANT THE ECONOMY TO GROW ORGANICALLY.

THEY SAY LOW TAXES.

>> IF YOU GET OUT OF THE WAY THEY'LL TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

>> EXACTLY, AND THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE WHERE THE DEMOCRATS ARE BASICALLY SAYING NO, NO, NO.

GOVERNMENT CAN HELP YOU.

WE'LL GIVE YOU THIS, WE'LL GIVE YOU THAT.

WE WILL CREATE JOBS.

WELL, THAT'S NOT THE REPUBLICAN WAY.

>> WELL, REMEMBER RICK SNYDER CAME IN TELLING US THAT HE WOULD BE A GARDENING GOVERNOR, WHICH IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, PUTTING MANURE ON THE JOBS THAT ARE IN MICHIGAN AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS.

WHAT HAPPENED TO RICK SNYDER ON THAT FRONT?

>> I'M NOT THE PERSON TO ASK FOR THAT ONE.

>> LOOKING ACROSS THE BORDER SAYING GUESS WHAT, WITH WE'RE TAKING YOU TO THE CLEANERS.

>> THAT WAS ALSO A RECESSION RESPONSE.

AT THE TIME WE WERE COMING OUT OF THE 2008 RECESSION.

WE TEND TO AS A STATE DURING RECESSIONS AND ECONOMIC DOWNTURNS SAY WE SHOULD DIVERSIFY OUR ECONOMY, HERE'S OTHER THINGS WE SHOULD LOOK AT, LET'S LEAN INTO WHAT WE'RE GOOD AT.

AND THEN THE ECONOMY PICKS UP AND WE SAY, JUST KIDDING.

>> WELL, IT WASN'T ONLY RICK SNYDER BUT JOHN ENGLER HAD THE SAME HE OPINION.

>> AND RICK SNYDER TALKED ABOUT CHINA ALL EIGHT YEARS.

HE UNDERSTOOD AND TOLD ME THIS PERSONALLY WE COULD EITHER HAVE THESE IN ASIA OR HERE IN MICHIGAN.

THESE WILL BE PRODUCED SOMEWHERE.

THERE'S AN TOORMT HAVE THEM BE PRODUCED HERE.

DOES IT NEED TO COME WITH A BILLION DOLLAR GIFT FROM TAXPAYERS AND OBVIOUSLY THE GOVERNOR AND THE REPUBLICANS ARGUE THAT, YEAH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT BRINGS US IN.

THIS IS HIGHLY COMPETITIVE.

THEY COULD BE GOING TO TENNESSEE OR SOUTH CAROLINA OR VIRGINIA OR SOMEWHERE ELSE.

SO THIS IS DEFINITELY A PART OF IT.

BUT ALSO THIS IDEA OF CHINA BASHING, THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY NEW, RIGHT.

WE'VE SEEN THIS IN MICHIGAN AND MANY OTHER PLACES FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

>> WE HAD A GOVERNOR'S RACE THAT WAS BASICALLY RUN ON THAT ISSUE.

IF ANYBODY REMEMBERS, WHO?

>> BLANCHER AND ENGLER, MARK BREWER.

YOU MENTIONED, RICHARD, TO THE POINT YOU MADE ABOUT THE LGBT COMMUNITY.

THEY'VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME FOR THIS.

THIS IS PROOF THAT THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS WORKS BUT TAKES A WHILE TO GET THERE.

>> HE CERTAINLY.

AND I HAD SOME MEMBERS OF OUR TEAM WHO WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY FAMILIAR WITH POLITICS, SAY THIS ISN'T ALREADY IN THE LAW?

BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU KIND OF ASSUME IS ALREADY WRITTEN IN THERE.

>> YOU COULD NOT LOSE YOUR JOB BECAUSE OF YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

LOGIC WOULD TELL YOU THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

>> YES.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT SEEMS -- AS YOU SAID, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING AND SOMETHING THAT HAS SUPPORT FROM REPUBLICANS, TOO.

IT JUST DIDN'T HAVE SUPPORT FROM THE FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AND FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP.

SO I WOULD SAY SPECIFICALLY THAT -- >> LET ME PICK UP ON THAT POINT, DID THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THE GOVERNOR HAD WITH THE PREVIOUS REPUBLICAN LEADERS IN THE MICHIGAN LEGISLATURE LAST TERM IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE SHE HAS NOW.

IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT?

IN OTHER WORDS, ERIC NESBIC IS NOT MIKE SHIRKY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF INITIATIVES THAT STOPPED AT SHIRKY'S DOOR AND THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THERE WAS MUCH BARGAINING GOING ON TO BRING UP SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT PEOPLE CARED ABOUT.

PROBABLY NO ONE KNOWS THAT MORE THAN JEREMY MOSS WHOSE FOILEDING LEGISLATION STALLED IN FRONT OF THE SENATE MULTIPLE TIMES.

I THINK HE HAD THE ELLIOT LARSON INSTALL THAT SIMILAR SITUATION.

SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE LEEWAY WITH THE CURRENT REPUBLICANS.

AND FLZ A MUCH WEAKER POSITION.

I THINK THEY HAVE A BIGGER INCENTIVE TO TRY TO WORK WITH HER IF THEY WANT TO GET ANY BIPARTISAN WINS THAT THEY CAN BRING HOME TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

>> MATT HALL OF THE TWO REPUBLICAN LEADERS IS A LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVE ABOUT TAKING ON THE GOVERNOR.

AM I READING THAT CORRECTLY, MR. BALLENGER.

>> A LITTLE BIT MORE BUT I THINK EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID HERE IS CORRECT.

I THINK IT'S NOT AS CONTENTIOUS AS IT WAS BETWEEN SHIRKY AND THE GOVERNOR THE LAST SESSION.

AND I THINK SO FAR -- BUT AGAIN, THE KEY THING IS THE REPUBLICANS ARE IN THE MINORITY, THEY'RE NOT IN THE MAJORITY ANYMORE, SO THAT MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERENCE.

LET'S SEE HOW IT WORKS SIX MONTHS FROM NOW, NEXT YEAR AT THIS TIME, IF WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING WE'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT THE FOUR OF THEM HAVE DEVELOPED A CLOSE WORKING RELATIONSHIP THAT OTHER QUADRANTS HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST.

I THINK IT REMAIN AS WORK IN PROGRESS.

>> WELL, LOOK AT MILKIN FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR.

HE REALLY ALWAYS HAD CORDIAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE LEADERS IN EVERY CHAMBER.

HE REALLY DID.

AND HAD WHAT BUNCH OF THEM OVER TIME.

>> HE ALSO WORKED IN A DIFFERENT POLITICAL CLIMATE THAN WHAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL HE DID.

BUT THE POINT IS THE MODEL.

THAT'S REALLY THE WAY IT SHOULD WORK, WHERE YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO CAN SIT DOWNTOWN AND HAVE A QUADRANT MEETING AND YOU'RE NOT AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS AND NOT TAKING POT-SHOTS AT YOUR OPPOSITION IN PRESS CONFERNCES AFTERWARDS, AND THERE'S NOT THE RANKER THAT THERE'S BEEN IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE.

>> AND I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT AN IMPORTANT POINT HERE IS THAT RIGHT NOW WE'RE GETTING ALL OF THESE BIG DEMOCRATIC AGENDA ITEMS OUT OF THE WAY.

SO WHEN WE HAVE THOSE OUT OF THE WAY, WE MIGHT SEE A VERY DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE QUADRANT AND THE GOVERNOR BECAUSE THESE ARE GONNA BE THINGS THAT ARE GONNA BE LESS DEMOCRATIC PRIORITIES AND POTENTIALLY MORE JUST MICHIGAN PRIORS.

OR AT LEAST HOW IT MIGHT BE SEEN BY REPUBLICANS.

SO I THINK ONCE THAT COMES INTO PLAY, WE'LL REALLY START TO SEE WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE.

>> THE GUN HIGHER BEEN IMPORTANT AND THE DEMOCRATS SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY DID.

THEY'RE STILL WORKING ON THE RED FLAG LAW BUT WHAT KIND OF MARKS DO THEY GET?

INSIDE THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING -- WE HAD POLLING THAT CAME OUT A WHILE AGO THAT INDICATES THAT ON MANY OF THESE ISSUES THAT ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT CONFISCATING GUNS, RIGHT, THAT'S NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION ALTHOUGH IT COMES UP IN THE POLITICAL RHETORIC BUT STUFF ABOUT STORAGE LAWS SEEMS TO BE VERY, VERY POPULAR.

85% OF THE ELECTORATE, NOT JUST DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

SO THESE ARE ALREADY ISSUES IN PLACE IN CONSERVATIVE STATES, THERE'S RED FLAG LAWS IN FLORIDA AND INDIANA.

THESE ARE IDEAS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY EMANATING OUT OF MICHIGAN.

THEY'RE LIKE ON THE FORE FRONT OF THESE ALLEGEDLY LIBERAL IDEAS.

I DO THINK AT THE SAME TIME THERE'S PUSHBACK ABOUT CONSERVATIVES WHETHER OR NOT SPECIFIC BILLS WOULD STOP SPECIFIC EVENTS LIKE THAT SEEMS TO BE LIKE PEOPLE ARE CORRELATING THIS IDEA, WELL, BUT FOR THIS LAW, WOULD THIS SORT OF THING HAVE HAPPENED.

AND THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY ARGUMENTS THAT, NO, THAT NECESSARILY WOULDN'T BE THE CASE.

WE'VE SEEN RIGHT AFTER THE TRAGIC SHOOTING IN NASHVILLE, THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS IN TENNESSEE BUT STALLING TO THICKER GLASS IN THE SCHOOLS OR HAVING ARMED GUARDS.

AND STNS A SUPER MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS.

SO YOU'RE SEEING THESE THINGS COME UP AS WELL.

BUT AGAIN, EVERYBODY WANTS SOMETHING TO CHANGE, RIGHT.

AND THE FACT THAT SOMETHING IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AS OPPOSED TO DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING WILL WORK OR WORK AS WELL AS INTEND, I THINK COULD RESINATE WITH VOTERS.

>> WHERE DOES THIS DEBATE END.

>> IT ENDS WHEN THEY GET ALL OF THESE BILLS THROUGH, PARTICULARLY THE RELATED FLAG LAW AND WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC, BUT I THINK EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING IS THE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

PUBLIC OPINION IS ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE, DEMOCRATS AND PUBLIC OPINION.

REPUBLICANS REALLY ONLY HAVE A PROBLEM IN PRIMARIES AGAINST EACH OTHER.

ON THE GUN ISSUE.

>> LET ME JUST GO BACK TO RIGHT TO WORK FOR A SECOND.

THERE IS SHAT CHATTER OUT THERE THAT THERE MAY BE A PETITION DRIVE TO UNDO WHAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE.

I FORGOT TO BRING THAT UP.

SOMEBODY REACT TO THAT, IS THAT REALLY NOT A PETITION DRIVE TO GO BACK TO RIGHT TO WORK -- >> OH, RIGHT TO WORK, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.

IN FACT, THERE WAS ONE POLL TAKEN, YOU PROBABLY SAW IT BY MRG LAST WEEK, THAT SAYS THE PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT A RETURN TO RIGHT TO WORK.

THEY'RE FOR RIGHT TO WORK NOW.

>> BY A 55% MARGIN.

>> YEAH.

DO YOU THINK A PETITION DRIVE WILL BE OUT THERE?

>> I MEAN, YOU CAN'T REALLY ANYTHING OUT, I GUESS, RIGHT.

>> THEY DID PUT THE APPROPRIATION IN THE LEGISLATION TO MAKE IT REFERENDUM PROOF SO I THINK THAT'S AN INDICATION THAT AT LEAST DEMOCRATS ARE WORRIED THAT IT COULD MATERIALIZE.

>> THERE'S A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

>> AND OF COURSE THEY TRY TO, YOU KNOW, THE UAW IN 2012 -- TRIED TO EVEN SHRINE SORT OF WORKERS 'RIGHTS IN THE CONSTITUTION AND FAILED BY A PRETTY WIDE MARGIN IF I'M RECALLING QEK CORRECTLY SO THIS WOULD BE A PRY TRY IN THE OBJECT SIT DIRECTION AND I DON'T KNOW IF VOTERS WOULD BE ANY MORE AMENABLE.

>> ALL RIGHT, IT'S ALL ABOUT A JOURNEY SIGN OR DIE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

DO THE PUBLIC ARE KNOW?

DO OUR VIEWERS KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> WELL, YOU HEARD A COLLECTIVE CLICKER WHEN YOU SAID SIGNING.

THERE'S A WAY AROUND THAT.

LOOK IT, ONE OF THE TOOLS THE REPUBLICANS DO HAVE IS WITHHOLDING IMMEDIATE EFFECT TO LEGISLATION THAT HAS TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE LEGISLATURE ADJOURNS.

OKAY.

I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO ADJOURN THE LEGISLATURE AND BRING THEM BACK TO A SPECIAL SESSION.

DO ANY OF YOU THAT I -- >> THAT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.

DEMOCRATS CONTROL EVERYTHING.

I GET ALL OF THE BIG STUFF THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT OUT OF THE WAY BY SUMMER, START THE CLOCK RUNNING, 90 DAYS AND THEY GET THEIR PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY WHEN THEY WANT IT, IF THEY HAVE TO BE CALLED BACK IN SESSION FOR ANY PURPOSE THEY CAN COORDINATE WITH THE GOVERNOR BECAUSE THAT'S THE TERM OF A SPECIAL SESSION CALLED BY THE GOVERNOR, SHE IS ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER.

THEY HAVE IT WORKED OUT, THE LEADERS OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE, DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS AND THE GOVERNOR, AND SAY, OKAY, GOVERNOR BRING US BACK AND WE'LL DO IT?

WILL THE REPUBLICANS OBJECT?

>> THEY'LL MAKE A LOT OF POLITICAL FALGER ABOUT IT.

>> THE GENERAL PUBLIC PROBABLY AS WE POINTED OUT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.

>> AND IT DOESN'T MATTER.

THAT'S UNIMPORTANT.

>> BUT THEY'VE ALREADY MADE A DEAL ON IE ON SOME OF THESE BUSINESS INCENTIVES.

COULD THE GOVERNOR -- GOD VOTES FOR IE FOR RETURN OF A TAX BREAK FOR REPUBLICANS.

SO THERE'S THE TEMPERATURE LET FOR WORKING THAT AROUND.

>> THE BIG THING IS THIS RESOLUTION THEY'VE GOT IN THE SENATE WHERE THEY COULD LOWER THE BOOM AND CHANGE THE SENATE RULES, SO THEY COUNT IMMEDIATE EFFECT VOTES LIKE THEY COULD IN THE HOUSE.

THAT'S GONNA MAKE PEOPLE'S EYES GLAZE OVER IN THE GENT PUBLIC TOO BUT WE KNOW WHAT IT MEANS, IT MEANS THE DEMOCRATS BASICALLY IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE CAN GET IMMEDIATE EFFECT ANYTIME THEY WANT WITHOUT A ROLL CALL VOTE.

>> ON TOP OF ALL THIS, WE HAVE THE POLITICS OF THE U.S. SENATE RACE BEING A COMPLETELY NEW GAME AND EVERYBODY THERE WAS STORY, WHY, DAVID?

>> THIS IS CHANGING THE GUARD, RIGHT, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD SPECULATION ABOUT WHICH POWERFUL DEMOCRATS COULD GET IN.

HAD IS AN OBVIOUSLY DEMOCRATIC BENCH.

WE'VE SEEN PEOPLE COLATING AND I SAW EMILY'S GROUP -- >> A DIFFERENT EMILY.

>> WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THAT AND SEEING A LITTLE BIT MORE WHICH REPUBLICAN IS GOING TO RUN, RIGHT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ENVIRONMENT IS LIKE, THE HISTORY SHOWS THIS IS A TOUGH RACE FOR A REPUBLICAN.

COULD IT BE SOMEBODY LIKE A PETER MEYER WHO POTENTIALLY HAS THE CAPACITY TO SELF-FUND.

IS IT SOMEBODY THAT'S MOREFYING WITH THE TRUMP WING OF THE PARTY.

TO PEE THAT WILL BE AN INTERESTING STEP IN THE PROCESS?

WHO THE HECK CAN MAKE IT THROUGH A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON HAS ANY HOPE OF WINNING IN A GENERAL WHICH IS A PROBLEM THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE IN THE GUBERNATORIALS.

>> WELL, THEY'LL LOOK AT PETER MIRE AND SAY PROBABLY MIGHT BE THE BEST PERSON TO RUN YOU.

WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON IT.

>> ON WHETHER PETER MIRE SHOULD RUN?

YEAH, I THINK HE'S SUCH AN INTERESTING CASE BECAUSE I THINK IF HE HADN'T VOTED FOR TRUMP IN THE VERY FIRST WEEK, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE HIM -- HAVE THAT KIND OF SLAP ON THE WRIST OVER THE INSTRUCTION ON JANUARY 6th, HE MIGHT HAVE STILL BEEN IN CONGRESS.

I THINK IT IS AN INTERESTING CASE ON WHETHER OR NOT HE COULD DO IT AND LIKE YOU SAID I THINK HE COULD BE A GOOD GENERAL CANDIDATE, BUT WE MIGHT SEE THE SAME ISSUE WHERE REPUBLICANS HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE COME OUT IN FORCE IT KIND OF DILUTES THE POWER OF -- >> THE WINNERS HERE ARE THE TELEVISION STATIONS WHICH ARE GOING, THE MORE CANDIDATES, THE MORE WE LOVE IT, RIGHT, BILLY.

>> TRUE.

ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, REMEMBER -- YEAH, SEVEN DECADES ONLY HAVE THE REPUBLICANS EVER BEEN ELECTED, TWO PEOPLE, GRIFFIN TWICE.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD, THE LAST WORD UNTIL TEXT WEEK, MORE "OFF THE RECORD," SEE YOU THEN.

THANKS FOR TUNING IN.

>> PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD" HAS BEEN POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMIRE, PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONS, DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT, LEARN MORE AT MARTIN WAYMIRE.COM.

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MICHIGAN TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF "OFF THE RECORD."