Thanks for tuning in.

The Republican chair of the House Appropriations Committee is up next.

Representative Ann Bollin with where we are financially in Michigan and a new Democrat running for the U.S. Senate.

His name is Joe Tate.

On the OTR panel We have Rick Pluta, Zoe Clark and Bill Ballenger sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record production of Off the Record is made possible in par by bellwether public relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at Bellwetherpr.com And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Oh, thank you very much.

Hope everybody survive the storms that came across in our beautiful state last night as we're tapng here on a Pure michigan morning.

Yeah, you got it.

Welcome back to Off the Record.

A school safety major issu in the Michigan house this week.

They passed legislation which is defensive legislation, not offensive.

Let's take a look.

Almost four years after the loss of lives at Oxford High School, state lawmakers argue there is still more work to be done to prevent more school shootings in Michigan.

And they are debating a nine bill package which would help the schools to beef up their defense should another mass shooter appear.

This former police officer and school resource officer turned state lawmaker from Clarkston wants the Michigan State police to conduct mandatory training for local schools on what to do if history repeats itself.

Rep. Pavlov has a bill that requires the Michigan State Police to provide uniform, comprehensive school safety training for school resource officers and all staff at Michigan Schools.

The Defense for Schools also includes beefing up the okay to say state hotline where anybody can phone in a possible threat.

And more lockdow drills are part of the package.

We're taking one drill away from the current requirements for fire drills.

Moving that over to the locke down side of the drill package and requires at least one of the lockdown drills being done during lunch, recess or school assemblies and at least one lockdown drill while students are in between classes.

But how extensive will the drills be?

Will there be fake shooters in the hallways?

Representative Harris's That depends on each school, on how far they want to go.

It's not all about active shooter.

Sometimes it's how to prepare for a hazmat situation in a school.

Sometimes there are role playing type events, right?

Other times, it's just how do we secure the doors?

How do we secure the building?

Where should we stand in the classroom?

It's not all about bringing in role players, but a good portion of this is how do we react during, you know, passing time in classes especially in secondary schools.

State lawmakers are more than eager to debate these defensive measures and fund them, but not so much on the pro gun safety groups pushing hard for an offensive effort to keep weapons out of the hands of mass shooters.

This Oakland County senator confesse just before the last election.

The votes aren't there for that.

Is it being talked about?

Are votes being gathered?

No.

None of that kind of thin will happen in an election year.

I actually have the assaul weapons ban and it's one of my one of my stocks.

You know, we we may be able to talk about that next year.

The post Oxford defensive measures expected to pass soon.

All right.

So, Zoe, what do you make of this nine bill package?

They left one bill out, but does this make any difference or not?

Let's first just set the table with just how chilling it is, right, that we sort of having thes conversations and how normalized they have become.

I just think I need to say that, as you know, we're talking about whether kids, you know, we're talking like recess lunch and then, you know, maybe there will be peopl dressed up as active shooters.

I just think I need to name that after watching your setup piece.

But I think what you di is you explain very clearly that that we're talking about two different things, right?

One is sort of these defensive measures where we've sort of as a society said, this is how it's going to be.

Right.

So what can we do to protect kids instead of these sort of active measures about the fact that we know that there is a a mental health crisis that is happening?

Some would argue that, you know, access that there is a crisis about access to guns among students as well, particularly after what happened t the horrific attacks at Oxford.

Of course, here on this campu a few years ago at MSU as well.

And so I think there's efforts, obviously, as we're seeing in bipartisan efforts among lawmakers, to protect students.

And we have seen this for decades, whether it's, you know the making sure that students, you know, have backpacks that are gone through or whether you have security officers.

So you're seeing bipartisan support.

But I think a lot of folks are saying, is this going to actually be the fix to keep kids safe in school?

Mm hmm.

Yeah, I just I don't know tee off on that culturally it's just so interesting that people of a certain age, maybe ours, you know, remember fire drills as being almost festive, that, you know, the alarm goes off.

Everybody knows what's going on.

And you go you stand outside and kids are just like, yeah, well, yeah.

And, you know, now we're talking about a real culture change for for students where it's, you know, it's, you know, not laughing, you know, none of that, that you're going to stay under your desk.

You are going to remain silent.

And getting kids used to that, I think.

I mean, just not getting kids used to that.

That is the new norm.

Right.

And we're talking about for six and seven year olds like this, is this is the new normal right now in society.

William Well, it's very sad that it's come to this, but it's absolutely imperativ that we pass measures like this.

I think this is going to go through the legislature, be signed by the governor, and I think it will put schools in a better situatio to prevent this from happening.

But there is no guarantee tha these tragedies won't persist.

I know that you're not supposed to ask a question that you don't know the answer to, but that's why I'm asking the question Why didn't the Ds take care of this when they had a chance?

Do we know?

I dare even do well with the K-12 budget.

They cut school safety.

I mean, they just blew i on the whole K-12 school budget last year.

That was one of the reasons they lost the house.

My question is still how could you miss this?

There was a lot that was missed during that period of of unilateral democratic control.

I mean, just look at it like, you know, they did abortion, they did, you know, budge and then just it just stopped.

And I think that there are even a lot of Democrats who are going we had our chance to do stuff like this and have it being a Democratic type proposal.

And that that opportunity evaporated.

Let's turn to the US Senate race.

Joe Tate has finally landed o a position that he wants to run.

Are we sure?

No.

I mean, it's it's fascinating.

It was sort of a good forward promote going from, you know, that really that that final what I was going to say lame duck.

But I mean it sort of felt like that final year right of of the Democratic controlled legislature at least in the House, too unable to get things done.

And some of the frustration within that House caucus was ove the leadership of then Speaker Joe Tate, who, as you noted this week announced after sort of playing footsie with maybe running for mayor of Detroit.

And then there was some reporting that perhaps he was thinking about a primary challenge to Shri Thanedar the 13th congressional Democrat.

And now, though, this week he has determined that he'll be running in the US Senate Democratic primary.

We just talked about with school safety ties directly into Joe Tate and the performance of the house of which he was speaker.

And his defense.

He did a terrible job, just terrible.

Who can?

But we disagree.

We see he had a divided caucus.

Okay.

I remember Paul Hillagonds former speaker said running this Republican caucus is like herding cats.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Some of them are very liberal cats.

They all have split caucuses.

Why should Joe Tate be given a pass for that division of his caucus?

I want to explain to him what his problem was.

Doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the Democratic nomination.

Tell us how you really feel.

First of all, not in a crowded primary, Democratic or Republican, you can't really rule ou any particularly.

What he really hurts is Abdul El-Sayed.

That's who he really hurts.

Because of the Detroit vote.

Absolutely.

I mean, it just sets things up for Haley Stevens and McMorrow outstate and just on you know on the caucus I mean certainly it depends a lot on the caucus that you have.

Even though that caucus elected you.

It depends on the leadership team that's around you.

And it might not entirely be a leadership team of your selection.

It's what was done to build a winning coalition.

And it just I mean, once it was done that there were all of these pockets within the caucus that had distinctly disparate views of how the Democrats should manage their majority.

And so, I mean, there's there's a lot of responsibility to go around.

And how that happened.

And let's not forget to how masterfully Matt Hall played those final weeks of lame duck as well.

I mean, basically, you know, whether you liked it or not and thought it was appropriate or not, you know, just walking off the House floor, his ability to garner support from Democrat Karen Whitsett, you know, so that there mean, it was it was his ability to keep Republicans at an absolute no.

You know, throughout it.

And it was I mean, it was a question that we were asking, though, is like, okay.

I mean it's one thing to be the oppositio and stop things from happening.

And now he's the speaker and you know, turning those talents to, well, actually stopping some things from happening, including Governor Whitmer's incentive program.

Politically.

What's so fascinating right now, I think too, is just the number of Democrats, as you mentioned, who are in this primary race right now.

And then you have one Republican, just one.

Now, that is not to say that, you know, it is early days that there could be more.

You know, we're hearing Congressman Huizenga, we still don't know what former gubernatorial candidate Tudor Dickson is going to do.

But, you know, particularly heading into Mackinaw, where you want to start doing some fundraisers and everybody's up on an island together, you start getting some support.

It's fascinating to me that we still only have one Republican in Mike Rogers.

Let me just I've heard there was a piece that ran this week that the president did not wan John James to run for governor.

There's been a lot of reporting He wanted to keep his House seat because he wants to keep control.

Now, is this a problem for Mr. James?

Because the last time I checked, he's still running for governor.

Okay.

And does he assume he's not going to get the Trump endorsement?

Is it problem for him, yay or nay, gang?

I mean, look, if you're a Republican, the question of whether or not you're going to get the Trump endorsement really, really matters.

And in order to play this a Vis a vis Mr. Like, do we all agree on that?

Agree on.

Oh, absolutely.

Although I think we we also have to remember that the statewide candidates previously who have gotten the Trump endorsement haven' necessarily made in the general.

Does it help in the primary?

147.9 percent.

Did you notice tha Mike Cox discovered that story?

Did you see what he did?

What did he do?

Well, Mike Cox, what is he calling John James are jumping jobs James, Is that the latest thing?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And remember tha the Donald Trump's endorsement typically comes right about, the point of inevitability regardless.

But no, I mean, there is a lot of sort of rumors about, you know, had there been some conversations with you know, J.D.

Vance asking John James basically to stay in Congress when John James has been asked about this recently, I think this was two weeks ago, he said, you know, I didn't get a call kind of thing, but that can be interpreted.

I was just going to say that don't happen literally, you can seven You just look all over the means of communication.

What is the definition of call?

But no, I mean, absolutely.

I think it's 100% fair to say that the Trump administration would have preferred John James to stay in this swing seat.

Okay.

Now we have prerecorded it in the can.

The interview with the House chairperson, Republican of the House Appropriations Committee, on where we are fiscally or are we anywhere?

right.

We have with our guests now the chairperson, Republica chair of House Appropriations.

Madam Chair, the House Fiscal agency is sort of giving you a heads up on where we're headed.

Are we headed in the dumper or not?

Well, I think that we're you know, we're not heading u we're heading down a little bit.

I don't think that this was unanticipated.

It certainly wasn't.

It was something tha I was expecting or planning for.

As appropriations chair, we'll get a little few more details later on this morning.

But, you know I don't think it's going to be as rosy as it has bee in the last couple of quarters.

What is down mean?

Can you give me a number?

Well, I think we saw some reports come out yesterday that it looks like we're going to next g over the next couple of years, going to be $1,000,000,000 down in the general fund.

And that's a lot of zeros.

So how are you going to deal with that?

Well, I think, you know, we are really going to stay on our course exactly what we how we've decided to approach this year's budge and really taking a deep dive.

You have to look back.

We've had a few years where there's, I think, somewhat of anomalies with the manna from Washington for COVID.

But, you know, in 2023, we had a $9 billion surplus in the budget, and that's gone.

And so taken really a deep dive, You know, what was that $9 billion spen and what obligations do we have as a legislate this year with those spending items?

Okay.

So if it were up for you, it's more up to you.

What would you cut?

Well, we're taking a deep dive.

There are a number of things.

Number one we have a lot of unfilled FTE, for example, what is going on with these as employees.

And so they're authorized full time equivalency, full time personnel for the state, and yet they're positions that aren't filled.

I continue to see this number grow.

I mean, this year, the governor's proposed proposed almost another thousand employees.

You know, we don't even know who's working at the state level anymore.

Where are they working?

You know, we're going to have to look at property management, office space.

I don't think we need to take on debt.

We need to look at the programs that are sustainable.

It just we really have to work very, very hard to provide tax payer value dollars and, you know, make sure we're on the right track.

Moving ahead.

What do you think about the Senate budget that they're sending you?

I think it's irresponsible.

I mean, you know, a couple of days before CRC it comes out and it puts us in a place.

So not only have we increased our spending over last year, but we also you know, it's billions of dollar above where CRC thinks we are, that we're going to go into a deficit.

As you know, we can't present a budget that puts us in a deficit.

So we're going to have to work very hard to reel it all back.

Representative, I think the thing that's taking up a lot of oxygen in this town right now is this sort of parlor game of when the budge is actually going to get done.

Right.

We have the speaker who seems like he's not necessarily so sure that' the statutory deadline of July one needs to be enforced.

Your the House already passed sort of a $20 billion stopgap measure, anti government shutdown measure.

I mean, what should folks who are watching from the outside take away right now about when the budget is actually going to get done?

Well, I think that really the outsiders should really look at it as that this is the responsible path forward that we are taking a deep dive.

There were many unknowns.

There still are.

And, you know, I hear I ge a lot of questions about that.

You know, when are you going to do it?

Why do you have to do it?

All that?

But the reality is we need to be very, very dutiful.

We have a big obligation.

And it's mostl the insiders that are concerned.

And honestly we're going through the budget.

It shouldn't be who you know in the budget, it should be what you know.

Is July 1st a deadline that the House will meet.

I cannot guarante that we're going to meet that.

But I will tell you we're going to make every effort to make sure that we put forth a fiscally sustainable and responsible budget that provides Michiganders value for their tax dollars.

We're going to, you know, really be working hard on public safety, education and fixing the damn roads.

We've made it very clear what our approach is that what should K-12 schools?

What about fixing the damn roads?c What about fixing the damn roads?c Well, you know, we've see a lot invested in the highways.

It is time to give attentio to the byways and the driveways.

And I think that absolutely think we can do it without incurring more debt.

You know, the governor went out several years ago and three and a half million dollars in debt.

We're going to pay $2.5 billion in interest on that.

And can you promise the schools you'll have their budget done by July one?

Look, I am going to work very, very har to have the school budget done.

I think that the school budget higher ed community colleges ar really at the top of the list.

We do have a stopgap measure which is some form of insurance.

You know, House Republicans, what we passed out of the House in that measure was an increase in student foundation, $400 more higher than what the executive recommended and higher tha what has come out of the Senate.

I didn't hear you.

Promise?

Well I think we're working very hard to have my commitment that we're working very hard.

I understand the importance of that and the deadlines.

You know, there's a residua consequence if we don't do that.

So we're going to work very hard to move it forward.

Well, the previous legislatures and a Republican governor Well, the previous legislatures and a Republican governor saw the wisdom of the statutory deadline of July 1st.

Why can't you commit to that, at least on the House side?

Well these are unprecedented times.

You know, I think that you look over the last four or five years with the budget, there are a lot of anomalies.

We had the manna from Washington under the guise of COVID relief.

We continue to just spend, spend, spend.

I don't think that's th appropriate way to move forward.

And yes, I was one that voted on that measure.

Right.

Seemed like the right thing at the time.

And yes, we do want to have time.

But remember, our fiscal year starts October one.

We have a September 30th deadline.

We are going to work to do our very, very best.

But I think it's important that we have somewhat gone with through a more deliberative process.

We're going to have not rosy news later this morning in CRC.

And that is relative to the whole planning.

You know, I think what the Senate has done is they put forth a budget that they have to go back and redo.

Not rosy news.

And then I mean, we haven't even discussed the impact that Medicaid cuts from the federal government tariffs, right.

And the implications that that is going to have on Michigan's econom as such a manufacturing state.

How are you thinking about what the future state is going to look like in six months?

In nine month when, as you started discussing, the headwinds don't look grea right now for the state economy.

Well, I think that that's what we have to see.

We know the economy is softening, but what do we do to lessen the impact or what we can do to prevent further ones moving ahead?

Right.

And so, yes, I am concerned about that but I'm not concerned about it.

Just starting today, I've been concerned since I got my appointed appropriations chai even into previous budget years.

We need to be mindful that Medicaid, we're watching very, very closely.

But I will tell you, you know, there's required services under Medicaid.

There are optional services, those optional services.

I'm not going to say they're not important or we don't want to deliver them.

When I think we have to do is be very mindful and thoughtful about what is reasonable.

You know, we've seen a very rogue department institute at the 11th hour, optional services, as you know that really are not practical, that most of us really don't have a path forward.

That's no the pharmaceutical drugs are one we hear at the national level that they're saying we might cut back on pharmaceuticals.

Now, I don't think that as a state we want Medicaid to not cover things like insulin for Medicaid patients or blood thinners, things like that.

So we have to be looking ahead and thinking about.

Are there parts of the budget that are sacrosanct?

Are you going to leave the state police alone?

Are you going to leave education alone and you talked initially about employees not hiring additional people.

Are there other areas that besides that?

Well, I think there are.

Honestly, I think there's a lot of waste in state government.

All right.

And the expectation due respect to every person, the appropriations chair who has sat in this chair, abuse, fraud, waste and abuse.

And that's why we have those, you know, BOGE you know, similar to HEAT in its Bollin's overhaul of government expenditures or budget.

I you know, I heard what Hall just said.

The speaker, Matt Hall, got to talk about BOGE at his press conference this past week.

And I'm interested about this because actually polling data right now shows that that folks are concerned about the DOGE cut of which BOGE is coming after.

And what does that tell you right now about folks feeling like maybe things are going too far in terms of the cuts that are happening in the effects that they're having an everyday Americans?

Honestly, I will tell you, I'v been through the budget myself pouring over it.

Our subcommittee chairs are and I think that we can make cuts without jeopardizing education, public safety, our veterans making sure the prisons can run, making sure that, you know, parent can send their kids to school, the kids will be educated.

They're going to be able to read and do math.

You know, we have to reset our priorities as a state.

So in other words you're going to cut Democratic programs.

I am not going to cut Democratic or Republican programs.

I'm going to cut what does not have value for the Michigan taxpayers.

That's what we have to cut.

So if you were a dictator, what would be your top two things if you would just get rid of yesterday?

Well, what would I get rid of?

I'd get rid of the earmarks.

And we have done that.

We have a very transparent and accountable process moving forward.

That is one thing.

Well, I'm not sayin we're going to do any earmarks, but I'm telling you, the process we have changed.

We have initiated that.

I was a sponsor of the resolution.

I've been fighting fo transparency and accountability and the second thing I would do is that we do clawbacks on many of those earmarks.

There needs to be more accountability in state government, especially those ones that are arm's length of what it's like, remediation.

Wait a minute.

You're going after the pork in the budget, quote unquote?

Absolutely.

So but earmarks alone if you have to cut the budget, earmarks alon are not going to get you there.

What is what is like one progra with an, you know, name a name that you would go after to try and reach these these budget numbers that you have to reach?

I would go after all of this new energy code and all of the, you know, why does the state have to invest in all these vehicles that EV.

But there is it is very broad based.

I'm telling you, when you look at the state budget it's like playing Whac-A-Mole.

You know, you think you're looking at one segment of the budget and this is where maybe all the housing is transportation, education.

And you go to the next departments like, whoa, they kind of snuck that in here.

And so, you know, we have to unseal all that.

And take a step back and really, you know, what is right for Michigan?

Do you want to shut down the regulations?

Do you want to shut down the government?

Absolutely.

I don't want to shut down the government.

I want the government to work for the people.

Representative, different subject, financial disclosur approved by the voters in 2022.

How did this get screwed up by the secretary of State?

It's a disaster.

The website doesn't work.

It's it, you know, really is the responsibility as Secretary Benson and I think Jocelyn Benson owns the taxpayers, the legislature, everybody in explanation.

But when Republican secretary of state's also had computer problems, were you aware of that?

Well, they have.

I mean, you know, IT is, you know got a lot of spiderwebs to it.

But I will tell you, I have never seen such a disaste is under the secretary of state with a website.

It started with campaign finance, the qualified voter file, public financial disclosure.

You know, I am then a longtime proponent of financial transparency and records, all kinds of transparency.

You know, I believe, you know what we do, we we should be open about.

But it's been a disaster.

I spent 9 hours trying to do my financial disclosure thing, anticipating that yesterday was going to be the deadline.

And it was so frustrating to not be able to do it.

I mean, it shouldn't be cumbersome.

It should be relatively easy to do.

I keep good records.

I'm a former clerk, you know, and it changed.

It was instituted last year.

It seemed to work.

Why would you uproot it all?

We have to let you go to the conference.

But before you go, who's your candidate for governor?

I really don't have a candidate for governor at this time.

I'm, you know, watching there's a lot of time before we really hit the filing deadline We end the interview on a punt.

Representative it is good to see you.

Thank you very much for having me.

Good luck.

Thank you.

See you.

More for off the record next week right here.

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