Lots of debates thi week and one of them was ugly.

The next likely Senate Democratic leader is with us.

He is Senator Darrin Camilleri.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very muc for tuning in to Off the Record from studio C. If you love debates you saw them.

Maybe one you didn't love.

But we'll get to that in a minute.

But let's talk about the governor's debate.

How did that go?

I thought it went pretty smoothly, like compared to Thursday, what we saw last night.

Well, it was easier to cover.

They talked about a lot of policy.

They showcased their differences.

I think both of them did fairly well during the debate.

Pointing out their strengths and the other's weaknesses.

I thought it was a good debate.

Yeah.

I mean, for one thing, the debate between the gubernatorial candidates did have substance.

They did talk on policy.

If you were somebody who, for instance, was concerned about data center that did get a lot of airtime, we heard talk about the gas tax, but saying she's now open to a suspension of it, you know, so if you were looking for a differentiation between the candidates, if you were somebody who's stuck in the middle, you did see some policy differences.

I thought it was an okay one.

I did think you saw, Rep.

John James, you know, distanced himself a little bit from the president.

I think, you know, like, tariff which which similarly Senate candidate Mike Rogers has done.

You know, I think that gives a little bit of a sense where both the Senate and Governor races are that you're seeing some of this distancing from President Trump's policies in some areas.

So I thought that was interesting that, you know, you're you're starting to see this kind of final stretch.

Some of them refine some of their points.

By the way, we welcome back Joey.

How's everything in D.C.?

Well, it's it's perfect, you know, very, very civil out there.

Woah.

We try to deal with the truth on the show.

In case you missed the drill.

Listen, I thought there were two distinct things going on.

Obviously.

And I think Mr.

James did a good job of putting some distance with Mr.

Trump.

I thought she was quite good at taking the statements and makin what her policy statements was, and then segueing into what he wasn't.

That struck me.

There was a strong contrast between Governor Whitmer's debate performances an the Jocelyn Benson performance.

Do you agree with that?

I think so, I mean I was remembering back to 2022, in the first debate.

I think Tutor Dixon did really good job in that debate.

I mean, people come ou and kind of basher and this is oh, she ran a bad campaign.

She had a good debate for someone who was a newcomer to politics.

She had momentum kind of going, even though she lost by 9.

You could feel like a littl momentum for her at this point.

She was getting a lot of money at the end of the campaign, and these are all things that I think John is kind of struggling Rep.

James is kind of struggling with right now.

You don't really feel th momentum on the ground for him.

You don't feel the money pouring into his campaign.

So you kind of wonder, where is this going to go?

He had a pretty strong debate, really, pointing out all of these potential flaws in Benson's, platform and strategy.

But the biggest issue, I think sitting and it's been this way throughout Jocelyn Benson's weakness is data centers, her husband's ties to this project and Selene that is so widely opposed by everyone.

But Rep James is not really able to capitalize on that, because he can't really detail what his position on data centers are in a way that makes sense.

I mean, I asked hi a bunch of questions afterwards, still trying to nail him down on what he's going to do about data centers.

And I don't even know if it's 100% clear right now.

Well, wasn't it clear?

He said local control.

But he also keeps using the word moratorium.

If you're going to give the locals control, that's not a moratorium.

And that's the kind of bridge in the gap here that he has not fully explained how that's going to work.

Well, and I was going to say to the people that I was talking to who watched the debate, I don't think that it came across as anything other than these two people staying on overt political message.

And so you go to Craig's point about how it sounded like James had talking points.

He stuck to them.

But when you're tryin to get to the actual nuance of what does this mean, moratorium, local control, how are you going to differentiate between the two?

You know, it's hard to get to the actual heart of that policy there.

Well, didn't she make it clear that her husband did not, in the family did not gain financially from this deal?

I mean, didn't she say that?

She said that?

But, you know, that's something that I think a lot of viewers and voters are going to struggle with because he worked for the company that was helping doing this development.

So whether he had a flat salary and that salary didn't change because of the project, that's one thing.

Whether or not he was involve in promoting this data center.

And she now say we need a pause on data centers.

There are going to be people that have a tough time with that kind of, balance of those two stances.

And therein lies the problem.

It's easy for him to say your husband made money and she has to explain.

She does, and explain why he has to explain his stance t and he's struggling to do that.

Well, I think, and not to get in the whole conversation about data centers, but I think that is one o the difficulties of data centers is that a lot of people see them as necessary.

A place like Michigan that is losing jobs, you know if you're going to be governor, we've seen it with, you know, Governor Whitmer was very unpopular with voters, but people do see it as necessary.

So I think that's one of these things with these debates is you're clearly, you know, trying to appeal to voters.

But at the same time there are certain things that, you know, you might want to do in your governorship that are unpopular.

And I think the issue with the Selene data center more specifically, is the fact that it basically felt like this company came in and just bulldozed the entire.

They basically said, we have more money than you, and we will make sur that we continue this litigation until you run out of money, which absolutely does not sit well with the people of Selene with the people of Michigan thinking, okay, here's a large technology compan that's going to come in and say, well, we have more money than you could ever dream of.

So we're going to make the rules.

So everybody afterwards calls them stupid.

Cool one.

And I said, here's the deal.

If you like Jocelyn Benson, she won.

If you like him he won.

The question is how did independents respond to this?

And wil they find any nuggets in there where they say, yeah, that's my guy or lady?

I think it's I think it's more than that.

I think it's you know, if you look at the race, what the polling says, John has to make up ground.

That's the thing in life, in anything.

We're not all starting at 50-50.

It's not who won or lost in that day.

John has a fundamentally different job to do in that debate.

Then Jocelyn Benson has to do.

And did he make up any ground to make a difference in this race?

Even some Republicans are telling me afterwards they didn't think that he did.

They thought maybe it was a draw, maybe he did a little bit better, but he did not cut into the lead that she appears to have right now.

Yeah Craig took the words right out of my mouth, I mean, it's exactly that, whether or not they made any ground with independents, I mean, frankly, for Benson that's just going to be a boon.

And for James, that's going to be okay.

So you made up some ground, but where are you at with the rest of your Republican base?

Well, what did you all think of this story this week that the Republican Governors Association dialed back?

They were spending $1.58 million a week for John James commercials and they reduced it to $187,000.

What we're seeing I mean, Michigan.

Thats huge.

It is huge.

But I think the in Michigan we're seeing, like a generic Democrat is running about plus 8 or 9 ahead.

I mean, it's a massive.

Democrats are starting to go into like, you know, Iowa, Nebrask for some of these Senate races.

I think just the headwinds that a lot of Republicans are facing, Michigan at some point doesn't really become a battleground state anymore.

If Trump unfavorable is are going to be this high.

And I thin just going back to the debate, you know, John Jame and Mike Rogers in the Senate, they can say these, you know, certain small parts where they disagree with the president.

But if his, you know, approval ratings are going to be 30%, I think you have to go much further than that.

And I think you saw that honestly, in Tom Barrett's, debate here, where he went quite, quite a bit further in disagreeing with some of Trump's things, did.

You think that RGA decision was a significant story?

I mean, significant in the sense that, like, it definitely signals where the priorities are out, but I think the writing's been on the wall for this for a minute now.

I mean, we're talking about how far ahead Benson has been polling the national Republican or, excuse me, the headwinds tha national Republicans are facing.

It's been evident for a while that James has been having issues breaking through and making ground with voters where Benson's been able to capitalize.

So, yeah, you know, where we do have, other other states.

There's only so much money to go around.

And at some point they have to make a decision.

Yeah, it's a big story.

I mean, it's just a signal of where other Republicans see James right now, they don't see i as a viable chance of winning.

That's that's what that tells you right now.

They were putting in like you said, about a million a week when it came to Tuesda when they normally put their buy in, they didn't put a new buy in to the tune of $1 million, according to the information that's out there that can change.

They could come in next week and put millions more in.

But as it stands right now, that is a very negative sign for John James.

Well, and it's not unique to John James because years ago, Do Riegle was running for the U.S.

Senate.

We had a local business guy here in town, Jim Dunn, who ran against him.

He went to Washington.

You love this story.

He went to Washington and got a promise to look at.

Don Riegle has done it.

Will help.

You will be there.

The first three polls came out, he was in the tank.

They shut off the checks.

I mean, it jus it's the facts of life, right?

But is it any different from what we've, I'm guessing all been hearing about this, this governor's debate?

I mean, I think both national and state Republicans that I talked to have been expressing a lot of these concerns.

So I guess I do think the RGA thing is big news.

I just think it's a little bit of what I've been hearing talking to Republicans.

And we, I'm guessing we're going to segue to this in a minute.

But the important thing here, it's not just about the governor's race.

That is the rac at the top of the ticket.

Yeah.

If John James does not keep this race at least somewhat close, it's going to have a ton of down ballot impacts.

The guy we're about to have sitting in that seat, it's going to impact what he wants to accomplish this fall.

It's going to impact Mike Rogers.

And I'm thinking if you're Mike Rogers, you're worried about what's going on in your race.

Obviously, you got to be worried about this governor's race if you're Mike Rogers, because how close does John James need to keep it to give Mike Rogers a chance?

So here's my question about the US Senate debate.

Did Rick Albin take a shower after it?

If he didn't I would be absolutely surprised.

I mean, yesterday was an absolute slugfest.

God bless him.

He did his bes to try and keep things in line, but at one point he even acknowledged, hey, I'd like to be part of this debate too.

I think tha if people are watching at home, it was very reminiscent o the 2016 Trump Hillary debate, where it just felt like constant talking over one another.

There was maybe there was some policy discussed there, but the fact that we're talking more about the slugfest afterwards means that it was completely drown out.

The Folks at home go to pox on both of you.

I think.

I think there's a certain amount of that, and there's going to be people who thought their guy did a really good job because they want to see people fighting.

People don't like that, though.

But there are a lot of voters right now.

If you talk to him and say, I want someone that' going to go out there and fight, and both of them steppe into that and and they fought.

They did not give up.

They were they're going toe to toe the whole time and to their camps.

They're going to say they did a good job.

It just went completely off the rails.

I think there is a momen in the beginning of the debate.

First ten minutes, there's a question about, are you going to put price controls on gas?

And Mike Rogers just took that question and started saying, Abdul is a con man.

It wasn't even anything to do with gas.

And from that moment on it became incredibly personal.

And it could point to Mike says, hey, I got to do something to make up some ground.

I've got a I've got to really cut into this guy.

It was a fascinating.

It's one of the I rarely ever rewatch a debate, but I was rewatching this morning just trying to figure out what happened here.

And it was a pretty good listen, on the second time.

Maybe the only one in the state.

You're desperat for entertainment is what youre saying right?

Theres something horrible about me.

I'm sorry.

I agree with yo on the fighter point, I think.

I think my, you know, point might be that those people have already chosen their candidate.

I mean both of these people went both these candidates I think, went into this debate, as you said, with the governors debate with specific goals.

And I would have said, you know, Abdul's, polled ahead in a lot of these, you know, he should have come out as the serious policy person not engaged in some of this fighting.

And, Mike, you know, the 14 year congressman could have done that as well.

People are looking for an alternative to Abdul.

I think the one thing I will say is that, you know, Mike did he has extended the kind of this olive branch to some voters by again distancing himself from some, some of Trump's policies.

So I think he did kind of, you know, maybe win over some of the voters that have a love of dual policies.

But, you know, he also came across very angry doing a lot of it.

That's the question to Republicans.

And I've asked some of them this very question, though, Mike Rogers is saying like, hey, Abdul is a threat.

He's extreme on all of these things.

Socialism voters are hurting right now.

Yeah.

And just calling someone else bad is not going to be enough for my read of this election, to win.

You got to speak to the hurt that people are feeling.

Mike Rogers has essentially said Abdul is bad.

And here are some differences I have with Trump.

There's a lot of other things I think he's got to still outline and he could do it still.

And it's exactly that, though, where, you know, yesterday you did hear Abdul very briefly touch on this, where Rogers has flip flopped so much on tariffs on Iran.

You know, earlier in this campaign season, we heard Rogers called the we're going to run a win win win.

And Abdul was able to to briefly bring that up.

But I think to to that point, you know if Rogers is looking to say here I'm distancing myself from Trump, is this coming too late at this point in the campaign because earlie you very much cheerlead for him.

Which could be a dangerous move on his part.

Remember, this is the guy who ran the last time and got 128,000 votes of Trump, votes less than the president.

In other words, the people voted for Trump and skipped over him for the U.S.

Senate.

Now he's saying the Trump is bad on tariffs.

Does he with the base, is h going to lose some supporters?

Well, and Trum is even more unpopular now too.

So whether or not you can count on that headwind oh, pretend I'm on the ballot like Trump said, is that going to actually benefit or behoove anybody in Michigan where we're seeing spending getting pulled out?

You're making a great point.

There's all this national media attention on infighting in the Democratic Party, Jewish voters, black voters.

What's Abdul doing?

The undertone thing is what's going on with some of these Trump voters.

Are they going to vote for Abdul?

Are they frustrated with Mike Rogers?

I don't think some of the national outlets.

They dont vote.

Or are they not going to vote?

I don't think some of the national outlets are watching that story as closely as they're watching the other story.

What's your take?

Attack on the national outlets huh?

Defend yourself buddy.

I mean, I would agree with Craig.

I think as I said earlier, I mean, when you have a state that's looked at as generi Democrat is running plus nine, I mean, we can have all of this infighting that's going on.

What is that two, three percentage points?

I mean, there's this is still Abdul in my opinion, still has the advantage of where the state is at.

And as you mentioned, again, I mean, Republicans made this choice to run a candidate again that lost by 20,000 votes whe Donald Trump was on the ballot.

So he has, you know, now he's not on the ballot.

He hasn't even bigger gap to make up.

But to be fair though, Mister Rogers was very close in beating Slotkin.

Okay.

It was in a point 3%.

But that that mega vote is important.

If it's in play that could be a problem as well.

Let's call in state Senator Camilleri Senator, welcome.

Welcome back to Off the Record.

It's good to see you again.

Good to see you too.

At what poin did you fall asleep last night?

I didn't watch the whole thing.

You didnt?

No.

What the baby was crying or what?

So the last time I was on the show, I was shortly after my son was born.

This time, and shortly after my daughter was born.

So, very excited to, to be you know, expanding our family.

Help us on how to vote voters at home.

Watch that and conclude what?

You know, it's unfortunately a sympto of where our politics are going.

You all were talking about this earlier, where people do want to see folks fight for them.

And that is something that I think you're seeing from our electorate across the state, in our state legislative districts, too.

But there is also a group of voters who are saying, we're sick of the bickering.

We want to see solutions.

We want to hear, these problems that we have be addressed by you and your candidacies.

You know, we got a second debate.

I'm excited to see how they adjust.

And we'll hear hopefully some clearer answers.

Which one are you?

Oh Im team Abdul.

Of course.

No no no no no.

Are you sick of the the fightin or do you like to see fighting?

There's a both and that I like to, I like to try to walk the line on because it is important for us to stand up for our values and push back when people are attacking our systems and our democracy and our residents.

But at the same time we also have to solve problems.

We've done i this term in a very limited way, you know, these last two years in the legislature, but it's important that we still try to get things done.

You're looking at numbers, pulling numbers from all these different legislative districts in your role, kind of leading the Senate Dems here, into this election.

Are there places in this state where Abdul is helping your candidates, while there are other places where he's hurting them, or is i kind of even across the board?

It depends on sort of district by district breakdowns.

But Abdul is leadin in almost all of our districts.

All of them?

Yes.

Which one is he not leading?

I'm not going to tell you that one, but, but there are some areas of the state, like West Michigan, that.

He's doing well in West Michigan.

And he's doing really well in West Michigan.

We're seeing especially in Grand Rapids.

You saw it in the primary in Grand Rapids for him, and that's carrying on into the general election, which is why you're going to see Carol Glanville become our next state senator out of Grand Rapids, too.

Which is I guess, and that' where where is your focus now?

Where are you seeing?

You know there's less than a month to go until the election.

Wher where are you guys keying in on?

We have five key races as we get to the final, components of this election.

Carol Glenville in Grand Rapids, Rebecca Amidon in Muskegon, in Manistee, Sean Carlson in western Oakland County, Theresa Brook in the center of Oakland County, Rochester, Troy, Sterling Heights, and of course, Kevin Hertel returning him to the Senate as well.

We talked a lot about, you know, voter backlash to President Trump, but have you heard from any voters who are upset with some of the things that Governor Gretchen Whitmer is doing?

You know, I know Craig recently reported that, you know, she appointed DTE executive to a natural resources commission.

She posed, you know, Sam Altman, a data center.

Have you heard any of that?

Are you concerned about any o that backlash in the election?

There are some Democrats who I'm sure are frustrated at some of the decisions that she's made.

I hear it sometimes, in my inboxes.

I hear it when we're out, in the communities.

But at the end of the day, they also know that we've accomplished a lot under her governorship and under Democratic leadership in the Senate, in the state House, whether it's free breakfast and lunch for our kids, you know, expanding, with a road funding deal as well as the increased investments in our schools.

I still think, you know, at the end of the day, she will end up being more popular than, not popula as she exits her governorship.

Is the gas tax holiday dead?

I don't know that it's dead.

We leave everything on the table.

We still have a session da coming up before election day.

But the reality is we know who caused this problem with gas prices.

It is Donald Trump and his war in Iran.

He is only exacerbating that problem with the price.

But he's arguing that point.

Of course, the people at home to say, I need relief are you going to give it to him?

The reality is, I think that we're not seeing a willing partner in the state House to talk about anything around affordability.

I found a referendum and.

Said, send it to m and I'll put it up for a vote.

And then he cancel session last week himself.

But why not send him the bill?

I mean, that's what I. There are all of their very.

Why not just take a vote and send them the bill.

There are very valid concerns about the road infrastructure dea that we all passed where we did reduce the sales tax on gas, which actually the gas prices would be higher if we had the old system and not the flat tax that does exist.

But if you take out, you know, $600 million of road infrastructure, those are jobs.

Those are roads that we had already planned.

From the rainy day fund.

We coul and we had a lot of other plans from the rainy day fund, too.

And Matt Hall said, absolutely not.

We're not touching the rainy day fund.

During the last budget.

One of your colleagues, Senator Bellino, said that there is a way to find money.

I mean, I guess, do you believe him at all?

I don't believe much of what he says.

So no.

Well, okay then, moving on, I said.

Wait a second, how abou the rainy day fund, for openers?

Yeah, we've had to deal with a medicaid crisis that was caused by the big ugly bill in Washington, D.C.

we've seen people snap benefits that were cut.

We had to balance the budget with with the Republicans forcing cuts that, we saw in communities across the state.

We tried to to go into the rainy day fund to say, hey, look, it's raining.

Donald Trump has made it rain here in Michigan.

Let's talk about using this fund to balance our books.

The House Republicans said no, but so now that they are.

On their heels with you guys taking a. Vote now that they're on their heels because they kno that they're down in the polls and every single on of their competitive districts, they're trying to throw a gimmick out to voters to say tha they're trying to do something.

We have tried to pass prescription drug affordability legislation.

We tried to go after price counters.

We've tried to go after auto insurance rates.

Where what has happened?

The state House has said, no, we're.

Not citizens sent them to the.

House.

Correct.

And.

You did not pass the ga tax holiday.

Right?

We did not.

Why not?

I think that there's a larger conversation in our caucus about how we want to address affordability, and we need to be very clear with our voters that at the end of the day this is because of Donald Trump.

Alrigh so the gas tax holiday is dead?

Just say it for me.

We have a session day next week, but I don't expect it to go anywhere.

What would you say, though to people that say the Democrats are trying to capitalize on the situation, that you don't want to help some of these costs because it's going to help them in the election?

That that is complete and utter falsehoods, because the reality is we have been attempting to address pocketbook issues all term.

It's something that Democrats have been leading on and something that we're really, really, focused on as we're trying our best to make sure that we're addressing cost of living, whether it's utility rates, or pocketbook issue like child care and health care.

These are things that we put on the table to say, hey, let's have a big conversation, because we know that the cost of living is something that is top of mind for every voter.

So there have been some Democrats across the country that have said, hey, Donal Trump, come on into my district.

Come on in.

We'd love to have you her because of your polling numbers.

What?

How is that playing in down river?

Would you invite President Trump to come to down river to do an event?

I mean, there are some really key legislative races there.

There are and down river ha turned its back on Donald Trump.

We're seeing i in polling across our districts.

He is wildly unpopular.

And again, it's because he has broken his promises.

The two things he said he was going to do this term were lower ga prices and lower grocery bills.

What has happened?

He went into a war that has only increased both of those things.

And voters are sick and tired of seeing somebody like that push this agenda, you know, and say, hey, we're going to address something for you.

But at the same time, he's lining his own pockets and we see it time and time again.

If you get an alert on your phone that says President Trump or Vice President Vance is coming to Trenton to do an event, you're happy?

I'm not happy or unhappy.

I mean, good luck.

The reality is, try selling an agenda.

When you have a president who is more concerned about ballrooms and his own private airplanes and finding ways to line his own pocket, that's not something that's going to hit with the average voter down river.

Senato you're a student of this process and you is apparently will become the Senate Democratic leade if you take control next year.

What is the status of your relationship with Speaker Hall this day as we sit here?

I didn't have much of a relationship with him, this entire term.

You know, I think that, when it came to negotiating the school budget, he sent a staf to negotiate that school budget.

So it wasn't something that was even done at the at the legislative level with his representatives.

And so, I think that what I'm watching from afar is I'm not going to be dealing with Matt Hall.

We'll be dealing with a Democratic speaker of the House next term.

And so if that happens and you retain the Senate, it's also looking like Benson is polling quite well.

Could be the next governor of Michigan under a Democratic trifecta.

What do you see as most tackle issues?

We have to go after affordability issues.

All the things that I just outlined, whether it's reigning in utilit bills, regulating data centers and passing that package that we've introduced here in the Senate, going after childcare and health care costs.

These are things that we know our top of mind.

We'd have to lead with affordability when it comes January.

I know for the voters that are people at home watching data centers, big thing you just mentioned data center package.

Say more about that.

So Senate Democrats introduced a regulatory package around data centers.

I have two of the bills in the package.

One would requir a community benefits agreement, and that if that community benefits agreement does not get enacted, the local zoning cannot get changed at the local level.

So it does give tons of control to locals as they're going through that process.

And the second.

Moratorium?

We we have not introduced a moratorium as part of this package because this is the components that people are asking for.

How do you do a moratorium on day one?

I mean, that is what Secretary Benson is telling people she supports.

Will you do a moratorium in the Senate, hold a vote on that until you can get the other stuff worked out?

I'm personally very open to it.

We'll have to see where our entire caucuses.

But the point is, the moratorium has to exist so that we can get these regulations right.

We do have a regulation package that we believe will get it right.

And so that's something that we want to push.

Let's assume that Mr.

Hall is Speaker next time.

What are you going to do to reach out to him?

I mean, we'll, we'll have coffe and we'll have a conversation.

That's that's the job.

Is that your job to call him?

You know, I think it's upon both of us as leaders of of, a chamber to have that discussion as we saw with leader Brinks.

Matt Hall was not very interested in having conversations with her.

He's already said that he's glad to have you there as leader, because he thinks he can probably walk all over you.

My words, not his.

He's a funny guy.

You know he's.

Did you find that funny?

Senator, did you find that funny?

I found it funny in that he lives in his own world.

And that's something that we have seen time and again.

He does not believ the actual political realities in front of him are the problems that need to be addressed.

We saw it all term with leader Brinks.

She's trying to solve budget issues.

She's trying to solve education budgets with me.

And, he was not taking any of that seriously.

So if he got a real package with the governor.

It took a long time to get that deal done to him and holding up the budget to.

Criticizing because it took him long to get it done?

Yeah.

I mean, because we've also not passed any, significant legislation outside of that.

And so we had an entire term to try to work together to solve people's problems.

And this is the least productive legislature in Michigan history.

It's not our fault.

Its his.

Senator, you know Democrats have been successful in winning back control.

When Trump is on the on the ballot, they've struggled when they need to win, you know, reelection.

When they need to prove to voters that they've done enough to continue survey.

What would you say, you know, on a broader scale of how Democrats can can retain, you know going to 28 presidential of how they can really prove to voters that they deserv to have more time for control?

In 20 seconds.

We actually proved it in 2022.

We had a Democratic governor get, elected in a midterm, reelected in a big term.

And then we took over the chamber in both the House and the Senate in 2022.

I expect that we'll be able to show that we can get things done agai and be well prepared for 2028.

Chances, chances of a trifecta coming back are?

Very high.

How high?

I don't want to put a number on it, but high.

Bigger than a breadbox?

I think we'll be at an even higher number than we were last time.

Senator its good to see you.

Thanks for joining us on our program.

Joey, nice to have you with us.

Safe trip back to D.C.. Nice to have you guys with me too.

See you next week from Off the Record.

Please tune in, folks.

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