Thank you so much.

We hope you enjoyed the program.

Now, it's my pleasure to introduce our panel for tonight.

We'll start with Nora Chahbazzi.

She is the founder of evidence based Literacy Instruction, previously a neonatal ICU nurse.

She began researching, reading in 1997 to learn how to teach her daughter, who at the time was a struggling reader.

This led to the opening of Ounce of Prevention Reading Center in 1999 and the creation of evidence based learning instruction in 2003.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Rachel Stark has been the head teacher at the Child Development Laboratories at Michigan State University in the 18+ month classroom since 2017.

Miss Stark believes children learn best from hands on experiences and through multiple opportunities for observing and interacting with their environment and the people with them.

Thank you for being here, Rachel.

Dr. Pamela Pugh was elected to the Michigan State Board of Education in 2014 and currently serves as its president.

She is a member of the Healthy Schools Network Board of Directors and a member of the Board of Directors for the National Association of State Board of Education, where she serves as the Chair of the Justice, Equity, Diversity, Diversity and Inclusion Committee.

Thank you for being here.

And Dr. Melissa Usiak is an associate professor of K-12 Educational Administration.

She is a veteran educator, having served for two decades as a teacher, the district coach, assistant principal and principal in three different public school districts in Michigan as a professor of practice.

Melissa is a mentor for aspiring school leaders.

She has a deep investment in bridging theory to practice and is committed to fostering systems that support students living in poverty.

Thank you so much for being here.

Now we're going to get started with our discussion.

Remember, you have the ability and the option to join our conversation by writing down any questions you might have on the green slips.

And we have Bill and Emily who are available to collect those at any time.

You can just raise your hand with your questions and they'll come along and get them to me.

Thank you so much.

So the first question is for everyone.

The film captures what many of us know in education.

That reading is complex brain work.

But was there anything in the film that was new, surprising or most intriguing to any of you?

I've been involved really intensely with the literacy work, especially in the last few years.

I was involved in another documentary that is going to be public soon, and I got to sit in over the course of a year with Dr. Nell Duke and all kinds of over 100 people for this documentary.

I was a literacy consultant, so I think that, you know, I've been marinating in this, but what I would have to say here is that this.

Steve, kudos to you tremendously, because what was done here was was such an overall explanation of what really reading is, which is very people have been trying to do that, like forever.

And you did it.

Wow.

I mean, that's that to me.

I mean, I was just like, man, that and looking at that whole picture, that's very easily digestible.

But also it had that, you know, complexity made simple to really explain what goes on and what's required, you know, for the brain to learn to read.

So beautiful job.

Absolutely.

Great answer.

How about you, Rachel?

As a practitioner, I don't often hear a lot of that research aspect of it unless I'm going and doing that research and reading about that.

So it is wonderful to hear and I think it is going to be really wonderful for our families to have the opportunity to watch and really understand and grasp that.

Yes.

You know, as I watch the film and think about my background and how I've come to this space of public education or education of our children, I think for me, just seeing how complex but just how important it is that we have to consider all factors when we're making sure that our children are reading and just really looking at how hard it is and how you just can't disentangle education from the health of our children.

So something that we know.

But I think the film just really shows that as well, as well as looking at the environments that our children learn in.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Melissa.

I don't know that there's anything surprising.

I've had the honor and privilege of working with Dr. Torelli and Dr. Duke in some real grassroots efforts across the state with our early literacy task force.

And but what I appreciate is highlighting them as not only professionals, but just really caring educators who want others to understand that complexity and simplicity and how that works together.

So I'm really hoping that this documentary, this film, will help others understand that and also demystify some of the controversy.

Right.

That swirls around what we do.

And I'm just really appreciative that they took part in this.

Yes, very good.

Very good.

I really appreciate it.

That complexity and simplistic storytelling that the film actually highlights and provides an entryway for anyone to understand and to partake in helping children develop as readers.

I feel like, you know, not only are our children often talked down to or have low expectations in the classroom, oftentimes as practitioners, we bring that to parents as well.

And I really wanted to be able to highlight that our parents and our caregivers are able to understand the complexity behind reading if we provide them with that information.

And I think the film did just that.

So the next question is what educational supports do you believe must be available for children to thrive as a reader?

And we'll start with you, Dr. Pugh.

Well, first, let me say with the Michigan Department of Education early childhood literacy is one of our eight goals, strategic goals that we're looking at.

And just thinking about three buckets.

One of the trainings that we have or one of the tools that we use is letters.

So you all are probably familiar with letters.

So language essentials for teachers in reading and spelling.

And we've had 5000 educators that have recently gone through that training, that intense training, 18 to 24 hours of training and making sure that they are learning not only about how the brain works, but also why it is that some children have difficulty reading.

But we also know that what children are reading is important, making sure that we have diversity in what our children are able to read and that our children are able to see themselves and what they read.

Opportunities to learn about others and what they read, and just opportunities to escape into the stories that they're reading.

I'll say another piece that we're really focusing, focusing on is our comprehensive history.

And I think that this also is a part of what we're talking about.

So making sure that we're focusing on our diverse populations, whether it's our children with disabilities or whether it's our African-American history, Asian, his history, Hispanic, Latino.

I could go on down the line, but there is a nine part series that we're that we're focusing on, but really looking at this comprehensively.

Also, again, I'm public health, so also making sure that our children are we're looking at the environments in which our children live, learn, especially our school environment.

So all of those pieces and we can delve deeper as to why.

I know there's educators in the audience and I don't necessarily need to, but we know that we have to look at this comprehensively.

And I'm so happy that the Department of Education is doing that in partnership with the state board of Education.

Absolutely.

Melissa, would you like to take us?

Cheryl.

I agree with Dr. Pugh about the early intervention, the early childhood experience and providing those opportunities for kids.

But I think also helping families know that, you know, they are their children's first teachers and really helping them embrace some of what you saw on the screen.

Right.

The singing, the talking, the reading, the access to books and texts and as well as anything we can do to dismantle so much of what we've done in our schools that are systems and structures that really don't provide that access.

So in going deeper, right, not just those sometimes performative sorts of things that we sometimes do because they feel good when we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, but really using literacy as the foundation to to do some of that.

Absolutely.

Either one of you.

Right.

So I can go, I guess.

I think it's incredibly important to just have give children the opportunity, provide a space for them to feel comfortable using language, providing their ideas, their ideas matter.

And so having those teachers, families, anyone in their lives that are going to listen to them and respond to them when they're speaking and expand on them and actually want to hear it.

And that just builds their confidence and their ability to express themselves.

And then also just providing those opportunities to explore different materials that have writing and know and allow families and other people who are not in education to understand that literacy is everywhere, words are everywhere.

So whether it's in a book or if you're driving in a car on your way to work or the grocery store you see signs, you see, you know, the McDonald's or Kroger, and you see that language and that literacy everywhere.

So using those everyday opportunities to really emphasize and that those are meaningful and in context for children.

And so they're able to really understand and yeah, but put words into context.

They're, I would like to reiterate having a very high bar 100%.

I say in my last documentary thing when he was interviewing, he said, you can't say 100%.

I'm like, I'm going to say hundred percent.

He's like, Well, he cut it.

I didn't get to say hundred percent on screen, but I did say 100% because that is my belief that we can teach our kids to read and not just to decode, but to read and comprehend and all of that.

So I think that if we have that bar high, that's really, really critical.

And another thing that I think is really important, two other things actually, one of them is that that bridge from the research, the science of reading, right, which has become much more prevalent lately, people are much more aware of it.

I think Emily Hanford and her podcast sold a story.

If you haven't listened to that, I highly recommend that you listen to that.

There's just a lot more awareness of, you know, what's going on as far as the science of of how our brain learns to read that we learned a little bit in this in this film.

And I think where the sticking point is, is that bridge to what do we actually do with these children when we're teaching them to read and strengthening that bridge?

That's where our strength is, is let's show you just what you do, exactly what you do to do this and and and get this to these kids for their reading, writing and spelling and all all aspects of that.

So I think that bridge and making that connection from the science to practice is really critical.

And I think another thing that's very under-recognized is the anxiety and trauma of not teaching our kids to read.

And we have many, many millions of kids who then become adults that are sub literate.

And the anxiety and the trauma that impacts every fabric, fiber of their being and all of their life is so overwhelming to so many.

And it takes over their life, especially as they become teens and adults.

So to be mindful both if we're teaching these older ones, I know we're talking about little kids, but, you know, if we teach them well, young, we will be able to kind of get rid of that, which would be good to make that extinct.

Ideally, as far as how it surrounds literacy, but understanding that those older learners that are not proficient at reading need to have that emotional support for that anxiety and trauma that they're experiencing.

So it's a big ball of wax.

Yes, very much so.

But you did touch on the brain science, which was something that I'm really fascinated about.

And I was really pleased that we were able to find neuroscientists who were able to explain some of this complexity and so when we feature the brain science in the film, how do you think brain research is critical to increasing reading proficiency?

Why or why not?

We know that is fairly new to be able to give this information to parents, to practitioners as well as caregivers.

But is this a powerful tool that we should be using?

Why or why not?

And we'll start with you, Rachel.

Okay.

I absolutely think it's important.

I think like you were talking about bridging the gap and having that understanding of how our brain works and functions and how children learn best and what happens when they're looking at words and things in our environment and then having an understanding of that.

And then how can we provide the best experiences environment for children?

So I do think it's all about bridging that gap, too.

Very good.

Thank you.

I would say yes.

And I would say that expectations, you know, we have to keep expectations high.

We also you know, I'm always going to fall back on environment, obviously.

You know, we look at things within the environment that can hinder or cause barriers, but we also need to make sure that we look at factors that we can use to mediate and making sure that we're putting all of those tools in the hands of educators as well as parents.

There is a.

You heard one of the researchers here from MSU, one of the scientists talk about the neuroplasticity.

And for me, when I was a principal working with a large population of students who were coming from impoverished backgrounds, that was my in for my teachers was this fact that the brain can change, it can grow, it can shift.

And that allowed them to lean in to how we taught students in particular literacy.

So it was very important to us in teaching our students that we know that there are epigenetics, there's neuroplasticity, it's all around the neuroscience and how the brain works and how we can impact that.

We can counteract some of those environmental situations that impact the brain development from a very young age.

We know it's very empowering.

Very, very much so.

Thank you.

You made a profound statement saying there's nothing in reading that doesn't require flexibility.

I love this statement as a reminder that reading proficiency requires many tools.

Are there any tools?

We have not discussed that any of you want to include, and we can begin with with Nora.

The flexibility.

Humans are all different.

Every one of them, right?

We're all different from each other.

So right there, then and there, we have to have this flexibility.

There are certain things that are absolutely innate, negotiable as far as teaching, reading, and really it's the same process for everyone.

But there has to be flexibility in the delivery and the dosage and that type of thing.

So I think that that last question about the brain and the brain, I'm thinking brain imaging, but the brain science can inform our literacy instructions and it's done it so well over the years.

And as a Nic, you nurse in that plasticity and how we can grow the brain is always been fascinating to me back in the day when in my past life when I did that.

But I think we also need to look at the brain and how our brains change.

Well, there's a lot of research, you know, quite a lot that shows these were the kids brain scans and then they had this instruction.

And now here there's they're very changed, normal looking.

You know, these are dyslexic.

Now they have the normal looking brain.

So understanding that our goal is to get to this normal functioning looking, reading brain.

Right.

Because that's a thing that is manmade that we have to learn how to do.

And and we need to look at a lot of different facets.

So there's many things.

Cognitive processing, to me, is what I would say is something that we really do need to be mindful of our memory working, memory processing, speed, sequencing, things in order, simultaneous processing, doing a lot of things at one time.

There's an awful lot of things that are tied into this besides on top of the very importance that the sounds we say are represented by these squiggly lines and we call letters in print, that's critical.

But there's an awful lot of other factors that are either strengths or weaknesses and every child and what that's where we have to have this flexibility, where those of us who are teaching the children and also teaching the teachers not to be rigid and say every single one is going to get it in this delivery, you know, we have to have that flexibility with kids who have, you know, other big, you know, weaknesses that are impacting their literacy.

And we'll go to the doctor using the tools that we may need to continue to talk about and look for within reading proficiency and development.

I think that permission and that expectation to differentiate to what what students need and that that starts with our educators knowing their students and knowing the students strengths and then using that evidence to differentiate, I think also experiences, I think providing opportunities for students because that eye, that vocabulary, that background knowledge plays a real factor.

And so providing experiences for students.

When I was first a principal, I was very we're going to I was very strict about our schedule.

We're going to teach by the bell, no extra breaks, no field trips.

Right.

And what I realize is that my students needed it more.

They needed that those those experiences so that it opened up that world of books and they could connect because they might not have had those experiences otherwise.

Absolutely.

As exposure is important.

Dr. Pugh.

I don't have too much more to add, but yes, the flexibility of allowing educators to educate the having the freedom to educate, which is, you know, in this world that we're living in now, that's not it's not a given.

So really making sure that educators can educate each child and we know that children learn differently.

And I will just reiterate making sure that children have the opportunity to see themselves in the books that they read and that they pick up.

And that's very important.

And those are things that we're moving urgently on.

And some of that has been borne out of out of controversy.

But we know that it is important now.

Absolutely.

And, Rachel, to you.

I was just going to reiterate that to you.

I think the flexibility in the ability to allow teachers to teach, because each group is different, each child is different each year.

And so if you're doing the same things over and over again, that might not be the best for each child.

So having the opportunity to get to know the children and provide the variety of experiences so that they can be exposed to that and representing each child, each family, each part of the community, so that they can make those connections, help understand what they see on an everyday basis.

And what does that mean and how can I contribute to that?

Absolutely.

We have about 10 minutes.

And so I have a stack of questions that I've gone through from the audience, and I'm going to pose some of them to you all.

Some of them may seem a bit similar, but if you can expand on your answers, we'd appreciate it.

What public policy priorities should our community and state consider to support reading, education and equity?

So when we're talking about public policy priorities, I think we talked a little bit about that and Dr. Pugh gave us quite a list.

So if we can reiterate some of that for our audience to continue to advocate for these.

Well, you know, I will start with of course, right now we're in the budget process and making sure that the budget reflects these priorities that we're talking about all ways and any budget.

And I will bring up that controversial topic around book banning, you know, on making sure just down the street there was a state that put a ban on book banning.

And so, yes, parents have to be partners in the education of their children.

And we recognize how important parents are to the education of children.

But we also need to make sure that children have books that that, again, reflect them.

Yeah.

Anyone else want to answer or add any other public policy priorities?

I have a thought and I think it would be ideal to have a lot of focus on student outcomes, student improvements.

What are we seeing for all kids everywhere and who where are they doing that?

Really excellent job.

They're moving the needle far and fast.

I really don't hear about that ever.

Where we're looking at these schools that are moving up and, you know, from the 30, 40% proficient up into 70, 80, 90%, I feel like it would be very beneficial at the state level if we had a spotlight on that.

We looking at that at the state.

Right.

To say these places are doing great.

Look at what they're doing.

These places are doing great.

Let's look at what they're doing.

I think that that putting their student outcomes all the way around at at it at a at the forefront and and then following and, you know, kind of copycatting and learning from those places who have figured out what to do to move the needle.

I think that that would be a great thing to be looked at it in legislation.

Okay, uh.

I something to add, ummm, But I absolutely agree as long as we're doing it really comprehensively.

So I think we have, we have selected and lifted parts of other state policies and not necessarily matched it with something like funding.

And we've had to kind of roll things back and relook at things.

And I use a third grade reading bill and retention as one of them.

I mean, that came from Florida and Florida's had great gains.

But while they also had these retention policies, they also had millions and millions of dollars put into literacy coaching.

And we have definitely invested in literacy coaching, but not necessarily at the same level.

So I just say a caution.

I said, if we're going to do that, we look at it really comprehensively and what makes sense for our context.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I would definitely add the priority of preschool, universal preschool for every child in Michigan, every family having that open spot somewhere that has quality preschool, that's definitely our wheelhouse here at WKAR PBS.

That's who we support within our education area and is vital for our children's success.

Another question was for students who don't get quality pre-K or even early elementary literacy experiences, how can schools and teachers best support them and their families?

Schools, teachers?

And I would add the community.

Let's start with you, Rachel.

I was just going to say things like this, you know, having the opportunity to put together something like this that they can understand, they can relate to, they can see every day experiences are incorporated into this and they see themselves and they say, Oh, I do that, or and how can I build off of the strengths?

How can I build off what I already doing?

So having more opportunities for things like this.

I absolutely agree.

One of the things that we've missed out on is being able to get a peek inside of early education classrooms.

And I think this film did an excellent job to show that we know that they are definitely some misunderstandings about what happens in early education and the power of those classrooms and those instructors and teachers since was amazing.

And to be able to just show that definitely continues to advocate for this level of high quality early education.

Where can we start to volunteer our help towards community literacy?

Melissa Do you want us.

In Livingston County and broadly, more broadly, we have several campaigns.

One of them is talking, is teaching.

And it's just helping those families understand that talking and singing from birth on is so powerful in that early education, in that in their experience around language and literacy.

And I think we also, along with that, have I know specifically a trusted messenger program where we ask community members to we help train them to recognize when families are interacting in that way in the grocery store, on a playground, and just giving those affirmations to those parents who are really, really working to on that language development.

So I think there are some community efforts out there.

Yes.

Anyone else want to add anything to that?

I think for our library friends out here, there's always opportunities there to definitely read or help salve or do some volunteer work that will help continue to promote literacy.

I was just going to say, I was just going to add that the CDL we're working to rebuild our outreach program and we are always looking for people to come in and read stories and people from the community to really share their passion and their love and show that within our classroom.

So you saw a few of the classrooms in the documentary here, but we're always looking for people to come in and volunteer, read stories, sing songs, play instruments, whatever it may be.

So and Lori is here for you to get.

And I'm sure many of our schools with whatever protocols and security parameters are in place, will love to have additional readers supporting their students.

This question is a little different, really focused in our film, but I think it's still extremely powerful, especially since I come from teaching eighth graders English Language Arts.

Middle School was my jam.

What can we do for older students who are struggling to read at grade level?

What can we do for older students who are struggling to read at grade level one?

And I could shatter that.

That sounds very simplistic, but teach them to read.

That's what we have to do.

And we and we do that a lot.

You know, we're very mindful group and you know, up to 82 years old is is what we have to as far.

And again, the trauma starts you know escalating and the anxiety around that but giving them the same foundational stuff, they don't have it yet, you know, teaching them in a way that makes sense to them.

Not that they haven't been taught something as far as how to teach reading, but there's a difference between teaching them to read and them learning to read.

So we've got to make sure that what our teaching is is actually resulting in their learning.

And it's the same process, just actually, in our experience over the last two plus decades is it's even faster typically.

Anyone else, Dr. Pugh?

You know, I would just say just continuously learning how or why it is that some children, it's easier for them to learn and and what it is and why it is.

And some just pick up a book and then pick up that next book in that next book.

And I think that those of us who are adults in whichever spaces that we're in, that we're constantly questioning that.

And I'll if I can answer the previous question and I didn't know if this necessarily fit, but every second Tuesday except for July, the State Board of Education is meeting like all day.

So I invite people to tune in and we are actually going over outcomes.

I also think that it is important that we talk about these are also upstream factors that impact outcomes and we know that everything that we're talking about now are those levers and dials that we have to turn to impact those outcomes.

But we do have information that is on the MDC website and you can look up data on top of data and we're talking about those data pieces in a particularly as it relates to those eight strategic goals and how we are turning and tuning those dials and levers to impact those outcomes.

Absolutely.

And to using anything else for those older struggling readers.

I think we sometimes our secondary teachers are really content driven and, you know, they teach because they love their content.

They love science, they love physics.

Right.

And those are really important.

It's important to be passionate about content.

But having been a middle school teacher, I think empowering our secondary folks to also be teachers are reading.

We have a lot of evidence and research in the state around disciplinary literacy and I think that is in place to empower those secondary teachers to have a role in that continuous teaching of literacy.

Absolutely.

One more thing I forgot this is I don't even think here, but we are working with the Genesee County Jail and some other jails around the country to help improve literacy with their inmates.

And we have just recently, in the last few months put out free lessons.

If you look at Emily Tube on YouTube, there's free lessons in there intended for middle school, high school, adults age that they can go.

All they need is a whiteboard and a marker and they can go on and do these lessons.

And we've had a really great feedback of people really significantly with just these 20 lessons improving their their reading proficiency.

So I would recommend that to.

And I would add relationship often times with older struggling readers, forming relationships with them and understanding what makes them tick, what they love to do, what their interests are, allows you a entryway into introducing a book to that child and then working with that child to continue to push more literacy.

Oftentimes, when they find an interest inside of a book, they'll just keep challenging themselves to find more books that help them learn more about those interests, whether they be animated or maybe they might be graphic novels as adults, sometimes it's difficult for us to expand our appreciation of what they want to read, but really being open to, you know, embracing what they want to read as you journey to help them gain those reading proficiency skills.

All right.

That's all the time that we have for this evening.

Thank you to our panelists.

I am so, so thankful for each and every one of you, those who were in the film, you all that are here tonight.

I really, truly appreciate your presence here and your expertise.

Thank you for joining us for building the reading brain presented by WKAR.

If you like, please share this program with friends and colleagues.

Let them know that Building the Reading Brain airs on WKAR TV on Sunday, June 25th at 4:30 p.m. and on WKAR HD 23.1 on Friday, June 7th at 10 p.m., streaming will be available Monday, June 26 at PBS.org and in the PBS video app.

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