Five bucks a gallon for gas.

Are people talking about it?

You bet.

And including Mike Bishop, who is the former Senate Republican leader.

He'll join us later on.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwether pr.com.

And now this edition of Off the Record, with Tim Skubick.

Welcome back to studio C. We have an interesting program this week.

Five bucks a gallon gas.

The question is everybody in his uncle, including El-Sayed and Mister Rogers, say let's lift it.

This is a freebie for them, isn't it Zach?

So lifting the fuel tax both the federal fuel tax state one off of gasoline has become, of course, the popular, easy breezy idea to throw out there.

You know, Mike Rogers.

It's very easy for him to call for the state to lift the fuel tax, since he is not currently in state government.

He is running to be in the federal government, at least.

And, you know, people are just, you know, the gas prices are kind of ping pong this year, but now we're going past $5 a gallon.

And, you know, I heard, Ji Runestead say on Zoe's podcast, this week, it's just politics that, the one thing that worries him right now, he's the chair of the Michiga Republican Party is gas prices.

And this is just the Republicans.

It is like an anvil over their heads right now.

But the easy part of this, you can call for it.

He knows it's not going to happen, right?

I think thats Exactly right.

I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly.

Even though.

Oh alright Mr.

Mauger.

Tell us.

I hear that, but I think this is.

Careful.

Be careful We're going to save this tape.

Well, they're speaking to a concern that is at the top of voters minds and just saying like, hey, it's gas prices They're making a political move.

People literally are trying to figure out how to pay for gas to get to work.

They're trying to figure out how to make their bills work every week.

And Mike Rogers, I think, amon all the Republican candidates, has smartly said, hey, I have to have some answer for this pain that people are feeling.

Im not debating that Maug.

The question is, he doesn't say to the people, by the way, this has two chances, slim and none.

And slim just left town.

And thats the issue.

Saying something is better than nothing.

Well, I agree with that.

Im not complaining about that.

Some people are doing Nothing.

The Michigan House is doing nothing.

The Michigan Senate is doing nothing.

Our federal lawmakers are doing nothing right now about this.

And we're talking about it.

And here we are talking.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Straighten them out Z. Well, I mean, look, there's there's the complications of the fact that, the US House is not going to be in sessio until likely until the election.

They're not going to do anything.

Would you rule out President Trump trying to do this unilaterally?

I mean, who says the US.

Can he?

I hope.

He cant change anything.

Could the governor.

If it's an emergency, the governor or the president can't say, hey, here's an emergency.

The people of the United States and Michigan are facing, let's suspend this.

I mean.

I have to say this.

I think, you know, high gas prices, angry voters is a tale as old as time.

We've seen this for at least 25 years.

You can set your watch by it.

The price of gas shoots up.

Politicians start saying, we need to do A or B, you know, you talk about we got to stop this gouging that's going on.

And let's think about lifting the fuel tax.

And here's the thing like well you have to talk about most of this revenue.

All this revenue goes to the roads.

You know, look, I would never say there's a 100% chance of Governor Whitmer doing one thing or another, because I do think she reads tea leaves on these things.

But, look, her entire legacy is almost built around the road funding.

And as Governor Whitmer, really going to just say, you know what?

We're going to flush tens of millions of dollars for roads down the drain when the price of gas could rise by another $0.50 overnight, to make getting rid of the fuel tax totally meaningless from what people see at the.

Matt Hall told Bridge It's not going to happen.

I'm not saying it's going to happen.

I'm not saying it's going to happen.

I'm saying people should be thinking about this, though, and you can say, oh, it's not going to matter.

Look at the price of gas in Indiana, where they have suspended the state gas tax compared to the price of gas in Michigan.

There is a significant difference.

And to say that voters who live, you know, along the border with Indiana would not notice that the people in Michigan would not say, hey, at least they're saving me $8 every time I fill up my tank.

I mean, that is an impact that, you know, be positive for people.

To be incredibly Machiavellian though, I mean, do Democrats want gas prices to go down right now before the election.

We got the tiger by the tail.

I mean, right.

If if gas prices are just sor of the indication, right, about how people are feeling about the economy, it's gas prices.

It's the war in Iran.

You have a president that's, approval ratings are just really underwater.

What do you why do you want to help, Republicans right now?

Do you want to help, Americans who are, you know, suffering?

Yes.

But do you want to do it before an election?

But let's look at it from the other end.

You said Matt Hall is no going to do this, which he said.

That's what he said.

Yes.

Is that a huge misstep for the House Republicans to not pass a bill and send it to the Democratic controlled Senate session on this?

And he made the argument that we've worked hard to get money for the roads.

It's actually Whitmer's statement that he made that, you know, this money is for the roads.

We've got to fix the roads.

It seems like he's putting his caucus in a bit of jeopardy here, because people are going to say, hey, why isn't Matt Hall taking action on this?

And he's the first mover to say, hey, I don't want to do this.

All right.

So let's segue into Mr.

Hall being now challenged by the House Democrats with 700,000 bucks ads run against to take the speaker out.

So this is pretty interesting.

The House Democrats reserved $700,000, and that is a significant amount of money, to run against Matt Hall.

It's a district that is pretty red.

It's not unwinnabl for the Democrats by any means.

It's in Kalamazoo County.

It's trending Democratic.

But still, you know, Matt Hall won by double digits.

Two years ago.

These ads are scheduled to start in mid-October.

So it's very important to note that the spend hasn't actually started yet.

And these reservations can always be called back if they decid they don't want to go forward.

But this got a lot o people talking because Matt Hall is the biggest personality in state government.

Everyone's wondering, is he going to be the speaker of the House again?

And, you know maybe the Democrats have decided the best way to make sure Matt Hall is not speaker is that he's not taking the oath of office on the second to second Wednesday next year.

The impotence was the th polling came back pretty close.

I don't know.

It was within a couple of points.

The Democrats own internal polling has Matt Hall up by eight points.

Then they ask a bunch of questions talking about how terrible, you know, trying to say, this is a terrible guy.

And whoa, lo and behold, now it's close.

So I did sort of chuckle when I was like, hey, your own internal polling says he's up by eight.

You know, it's not exactly lik he is a dead man walking here.

But it showed they could bring him down if they tell the story, quote unquote.

That's what they're saying.

Yes.

Speaker Hall has made it personal wit so many of the House Democrats, and now they see an opportunit to cause a little pain for him, and they're going to use every lever tha they have to get some revenge.

And how about the lobby core, which he has made a career out of banging around.

That's the point that I'm watching.

And by the way, folk like you want to be a lobbyist.

Wait two more years.

I mean, he doesn't have a huge fan base there.

Not really.

Putting it lightly.

No, it would be, it's a fascinating dynamic and it is just sort of the pure politic of Lansing right now to watch.

So does it have a chance?

I mean, I think this depends on what we see in November and turnout and Democrats, I mean, all of these races right now, we want to say, do they have a chance?

I mean, you're looking at Bill Huizenga in the fourth.

You're lookin at all of these races right now.

It's going to come out to turnout, turnout, turnout.

It's and it's not it's not.

Can we beat Matt Hall or not.

It's can we cause him some pain.

Can we keep him up at night?

Can he send resources there that aren't going into, you know, other districts Riley Linton's district, Ron Robinson's district, the Karl Bohnaks district Yeah.

Hey, can we distract him?

Can we get him off his tilt of attacking us and have him worried abou what's going on in his district?

I mean it's like the Lions last night.

Maybe they're playing dead a little bit, and now they're just going to, you know, lure the Bills in an and be ready for the Super Bowl.

And we may be facing again you know.

And make them do some work.

Yeah.

The door knocking.

The big question in my mind is what happens with Republican turnout statewide overall.

Because the thought right now is Republica turnout is falling off a cliff.

And I will say when you loo at the numbers in this district, it has one of the bigger swings between what it looks like on a Partizan level in a midterm versus a presidential year.

If this was a presidential year, this would be a nonstarte with Donald Trump on the ballot.

But without Trump on the ballot, this district uniquely gets closer.

It's like Gretche Whitmer won it by two points in.

2022.

I would not rule it out.

I mean, I think it's a long shot but it is not an impossibility.

But isn't the old saying, if you're going to kill the king, make sure he's dead?

I think the question for Matt Hall is whether he is the speaker again next year or whether he's in the minority.

But I mean if you'r going to get him, any speaker.

Will think they have to unseat him.

I think their whole goal is what is their path to winning back the majority.

And if Matt Hall is in the minority next year and Ranjeev Puri is the speaker of the House, if Dems take the majority, they're going to cause Matt Hall even more pain.

So one story from the past.

The Democrats tried to take out a House speaker in 2012, Jase Bolger, strangely, in about the same part of the state, and they spent a fortune there.

They lost, Jase Bolger won an the Republicans kept the House.

And oh boy, the consequences for the Democrats were rough.

Not only did their member pay a price with that, but they you know, it is still lives and lore to this day.

How the Democrats spent a fortune on that race did not win the majority.

And should they have spent that money elsewhere so that that still lives on.

And Jase Bolger reminded everybody of that, this week didnt he?

Oh yes.

But he has a long memory and he should.

All right.

Let's talk about Mr.

DeBoyer who is the lieutenant governor candidate for the Republicans.

What is going on?

This is your story.

I know, I mean, I don't I can' get into responsible for this.

I can't get into Jay DeBoyer's head, but I think he is an individual who is staunchly pro-life.

He has not run in a swing district before.

He maybe does not kno what issues can really set off voters in the middle, and have had a long history of being divisive for Republicans.

But he made these comments where he suggested, hey, potentially, here's a path that we could do something about abortion rights and limiting access to abortion after 12 weeks through a constitutional convention.

He was telling this to likely a small Republican group in Battle Creek.

He said I'm not sure I' going to vote down how on this.

But if you know, we could try this.

And this conflicts with everything, the top of the Republican ticket is said this.

They have said this abortion issue settled.

The people have spoken, and then you have their lieutenant governor candidate saying, hey, maybe it's not settled.

He immediately walked this back, I should say, after we started asking hi about the comments that he made, it's Republicans face just a huge uphill marathon in this election.

And Jay DeBoyer throwing abortion in the mix is like, hey, we're going to run the marathon uphill with someone shooting fireworks at us.

Now that's the kind of should you have to raise.

Was he freelancin or don't you go to the campaign and say, here' what I'm thinking about doing, and somebody says, you don't want to do that?

I think he's I mean, he had to be.

freelancing.

Sure sounded like freelancing to me.

I mean, and then what's interesting too, is you had right to life come out this week as well and say, no, we are no for a constitutional convention.

Are you surprised by that press release?

Well, I think one of the thing that I had talked to some folks about who would be in favor of a con con, right, like you have all of these opposition groups coming together and one very smart person and said, well, if there was one group or one organization that would think about it, i could be right to life.

Bingo.

And so to have them come out this week, so steadfastly.

Was it surprising?

I don't know that it was surprising, but it was interesting in that that would be one group that could think about the possibility, as Jay DeBoyer said of a con con, to changed abortion rights here in Michigan.

I mean, your number one job as the lieutenant governor candidate is to do no harm.

Jay DeBoyer did harm.

And it's surprising because he's pretty respected in Lansing as a steady figure.

But I think Craig makes a great point.

He has never been on a stage like this.

I mean, he has run a couple times in a 65% to 70% Republican district in the heart of MAGA world in Michigan in the thumb.

And now all of a sudden, he's running in a statewide race where it's a it's a bit of an uphill fight for the Republicans.

They need to grow the, the grow the vote, get more, get more voters to come i than just the Republican base.

And this this was a big mistake.

Did Mr.

James ever sign off on this suggestion?

No, no, he's opposing it.

He is continuing to say, hey, this issue has settled.

I think talking about right to life statement.

If you're a Republican leaning group or you have a conservative position, why would you want a con con right now?

Why would you want it seems like you're in a horrible position to win that.

I mean, Republicans are not doing well in the polling.

They don't have a state party that's really active doing anything.

The Michigan Democratic Party is very active in trying to get people coordinated and going.

I mean, Democrats might be in a better position if it did get approved.

Wow.

All right.

Let's call in our guest.

Let's see if he can top this.

But, Senator, are you there?

I am here.

Did you stay here?

Good.

Nice to see you, sir.

It's been a long time since we've had you on the program.

Did you stay awake during the first part?

I did, thank you.

I'm living my past and thinking.

That sounds a lot like what experienced in state government.

Yeah, okay.

Well, guess let's try this on for size.

Is Donald Trump responsible for five bucks a gallon gas?

I don't think I you know, I don't see that as being the the issue.

I think I know what my question is, Senator.

Was that a no to my question?

He's not responsible.

No, I don't think you can pin this on any one person.

There's a lot to be, concerned about here.

The situation in that region of the world has been percolating for years.

Who knows what would have happened, right now had, you know, the president not decided to to to move the way he did.

There's just no way of knowing, that there is always going to be the source of, of, the bane of our existence when it comes to, gas and gas prices.

Okay.

You know I would never try to put words in your mouth, but try this on for size.

If he doesnt.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, you've been there, done that.

If he does, if he doesn't go to war, do we have $5 a gallon gas?

I you know, I don't I don't know, I don't have a crystal ball.

But, over time we've seen the Iranians have been, very difficult to deal with.

And that Strait of Hormuz is the source of, of of all kinds of consternation.

And I wouldn't doubt that the Iranians would, would do this kind of thing and cause this kind of, you know, upheaval, just to just to spit Donald Trump during an election.

So who knows what would have happened?

We'll never know.

Unfortunately the president is going to have to take responsibility for it.

There's just no other way around it.

You know, with.

You've served in state and the federal government for a long time.

Can you describe the challenge that policymakers face when gas goes this high?

There's just not a lot you can do, but you hear about it endlessly from the constituents who are feeling the pain.

We've seen Mike Rogers this week call for suspending the fuel tax.

There's just not a lot a lot of urge to push.

But what do you do?

In that kind of a situation?

Well I think at some point in time, you have to resign yourself to the fact there's not much you can do.

But I'm I'm kind of on the same page as Chris was earlier when he was saying that.

You know what?

You know, what else can you do?

I, I think you have to think of, options, on the public policy side, whether or not you go for setting aside the state gas tax, is a different story altogether.

I think you have to be responsible.

And if you're going to propose that, you also have to propose where you're going to find the cuts, because we do hav a balanced budget requirement.

Is that a responsible cut right now, would it be.

I think, i on behalf of Michigan citizens, I and I think we have to think about that as being our priority.

Yes, I think it's a responsible cut.

But as I said, if you want to make it responsible, you must also prepare, some sort of, a plan on how you're going to cut the, the budget, wherever you might cut it, to find the money to do that, because yo you can't just cut off revenue and expect that, you know you can the state can absorb it.

You were in the state Senate in 2006 when there was a big Democratic wave year.

You were running for reelection in 2018, where Democrats had a lot of success.

Are you getting any vibes as a Republican that this election in 2026 is shaping up like either of those?

You know, I get a lot of vibes.

What does that mean to.

This reminds me, I this reminds me a lot of, my experience.

And yes, I do see, you know, this this election, you know, but for the fact tha the Democrats seem to be going through a major identity crisis right now, I think this would be really good year for Democrats.

I think the big X factor is how whether or not the Democrats can pull it togethe and and they can find, you know, a kind of a a unified vision on the future.

That's, that's a great concern to Americans.

And it despite the fac that midterms are traditionally, you know, not favorable for the current, you know, party.

I think this is one of those years where you just won't know until that, Election Day.

So if you were majorit leader in the Senate right now, would you support legislatio to get rid of the state gas tax?

So.

Okay, why are you smiling, Senator?

I went through this.

I fought every tax.

I still have PTSD.

From my experience, in the state government, thanks to Jennifer Granholm.

But I think what you have to do, Tim, is you have a really, a very, balanced discussion about if you want to do this and I think you should consider it, you have to find corresponding cuts to, to, justify you know, cutting off revenue to the state.

And I don't think that's unreasonable.

There's got to be if this is a priority and it should be for members of elected government, they ought to be looking at ways that they can accommodate that cut, with other cuts to state government.

But there's a world of difference between consider and actually voting.

Not.

And how would you vote?

How would I vote?

I would for me, I think this is I think this is a good plan.

I think Michiganders need relief right now.

And I think this is a good plan.

And I've never been one to be afraid to dig into state government and find ways to cut back the size and scope of government.

So this to me would be an opportunity.

So I would I would look at it that way.

It's more of a liability.

Is President Trump right now for elected Republicans or Republicans running for election this midterm?

So it's a good question.

And I think about this as well.

In 2018, I was in the same exact situation.

I, I could scream from th mountaintops on what I believed and where my, you know where my position was on issues.

No one cared.

The only thing that happened, in 2018 was the top of the ticket, and that current just pulled everything in that direction.

So there was nothing that I could do, nothing that I could say I was so frustrated as a candidate.

I even walked door to door at one point to try and get my message out because I couldn't get the press to cover anything.

And I, you know, all they wanted to know is what I thought about president's tweet that day, President Trump's tweet that day.

And, so it's frustrating.

And I think that's a problem.

And I think that and I've, you know, folks that are currently running, I my heart goes out to them because I kno they want desperately to be able to speak to the people, and they just can't.

You're from what I consider to be the epicenter of purple state, Michigan Rochester and Rochester Hills.

There is a competitive race for Congress there.

There is a competitive race for state Senate.

There's a competitive race for state House.

And it's kind of a bellwethe two for these statewide races.

And I feel like this has been the case for about eight years now.

What are you seeing and feeling there, and why do you think that area has become kind of this new bellwether in Michigan?

I, I was born and raised here, and I've seen it changed dramatically.

It used to be a very conservative community.

And, that's that's, you know, kind of what I was used to.

But it's changed dramatically.

And I think, a lot of it has to do with, just the, the there are a lot of, a very, in the there are moms out here that, soccer moms and, folks that, you know have really gotten involved in that are really pushing back on President Trump, especially right now.

Candidly, that, to me, is th the thing that most folks here are they just can't seem to, connect with the president.

And, and I think that is that is consistent with, with the area and the concerns that most of the electeds have around here.

How do they connect an get around that, that concern.

Mike Weber and, Tisdel down here, the the senator and House member are well known, well liked, an I think they'll get reelected.

But, you know, they face a really uphill challenge in it's incredibl that the the top of the ticket, you know that the federal level is impacting their races, but it's a reality.

I think I think Mike Bouchard's, chance of winning the the, John James seat down here is, is probably one of the best opportunities that, Republicans have.

He's running a great race, an he's well known and well liked.

What is the best argument for Republicans in this election?

The best argument fo Republicans is that, you know, I think for for me, it's to stick to the idea that you have to be responsible with government and that, you know we have to continue to address issue that are important to Americans.

And I, you know, I, I, I, for one have always believed that public policy is based on common sense and reason.

And I don't believe that, that that exists anymore to a certain extent.

And we've got to get back to basics.

And I think Republicans have the best story to tell, in that regard.

But that common sense argument, I mean, we're hearing that a lot.

Hey, this is about common sense versus crazy or extremism.

Yeah.

Is that going to work when people are paying $5 a gallon for gas and $6 a gallon for diesel, and their health insurance costs are through the roof, and they're worried about how they're going to make it through the end of the week.

Well, we used to say that it was all about, you know, your own wallet.

And that was what how people made decisions.

I don't think that's the case anymore.

I just think this is such, such a partizan environment.

It's going to be very hard for Republicans and Democrats, individuals to speak and to have people, you know, really listen to their story.

I think this is more party oriented.

It's, it's not people oriented.

And I hate to say that because, you know, we like to think that we vote for the person, not the party.

But I really think in this environment it's it's all about the party.

Senator, you're on a mission.

Along with the two former governors, Mr.

Engler, Mr.

Blanchard and, former Lieutenant Governor Cherry, to prove to people in Michiga that our elections are on the up and up.

Take me into the room.

When the polling data was shared with you about the group of people, 61%, who want and favor the FBI coming into the polls to look over their shoulder.

While they vote Tell me what happened in there.

Well, I, I, I think there there are a lot of by the way, the democracy Defense Foundation is doing a great jo and in trying to address voter confidence and, and enhanc voter confidence in the state, they're pollin was exceptionally, enlightening and I think optimistic about the, the, the, you know, the sense of trust and confidence we have in our elections.

There are certain issues that came up and results.

The 61% of, of respondents who said that they were okay with having federal monitors watching their, elections.

And I think this goes t the point that, you know, we're we're we're very trustfu of our local elected officials, and what they do.

But we want to make sure that we continue to, monitor voter integrity and make sure that we, we have this system in place that keeps it in check.

And I think, you know, just the letter of the law is important to people, and that's why they don't have a problem, really.

Don't 61% of the people, say that they're okay with having, monitors in town to to watch the process to ensure that it's fair.

So what it.

Was, it was a John Engler that pointed out in the beginning that 61% was a very impressive number?

It was.

Well, he, he firs raised that at, at when we were in, in East Lansing that, that morning.

And I thought that was a good observation.

It and it's true because when i was first pitched, it was, oh, look at that.

Only 61% of Michiganders believ that federal monitors are okay.

Well, that's 61%.

We haven't seen 61% in anything.

I think people just don't agree.

Senator, do things.

Have you had enough or can you hang around for overtime?

Yep.

I'm always available.

Wow.

Your advisors are going.

No, no, Senator, you're a gamer.

Hang on.

We'll be back for OT going to wkar.org for more of the good Senator and our great panel.

See you on the other side.

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